Instances + Minimap Travel = Backwards Compared to Open Virtual World

I think the fog of war is fine. Even in my own neighborhood, what is in the next block can change, and I won't know it unless I go there and see what is going on for myself.

 

In understood in jhon dom?s demonstration that fog of war is not present, but he described it with words.

 

Akrondar, he calls it "Unjustified Fog of war" at 3:54, which means I don't think he has thought of the possibilities it can have for gameplay and evolving terrain. He assumes that the map he has is accurate. (potentially fatal mistake)

Another thing different from current MMORPGs, when have you ever re-explored an area because you think something new might be there? once you level up past that point why go back to that level 15 area? just use your flying mount, waypoint, or portal system to bypass that.. even if there is something going on there its for lowbies right?

Basically in any game that uses a monoscale map you just want to fly over it or portal through it because it would take forever to cross back through all of that space... with this system they can utilize the fog of war or other things to help indicate you might want to re-look there. sure you could that with a flying over system if you see something going on below you. But then they'd have to make sure you could see the area from where the flight takes you, so they are restricted and then you'd have to go back to that area after you reach your destination.

 

Mirshi,

The map functions are all the same, it's just the map itself that looks different to account for more logical immersion... the main gripe about the dual scale is the lack there of. Yeah maybe the new generation needs imagination, but so do the devs!

Fog of war is still there, it's just the actual "fog" that isn't. Players will simply be invisible to you. New places will be drawn in, Other NPC's or world events could alert you to things and draw on your already existing map... Note I didn't have the time to animate this properly throughout the video.

I was trying to find a balance between those that LOVE the dual scale, and those that HATE it. Let me know if these points made it still likable to your taste.

 

Based on Dom John's concept video, the fog of war could be artistically done via color. The map is at first all monotone, sepia or what have you, and as you explore, it comes into full color. Over time, the color fades over areas you haven't been to recently, giving some sense that it's old and needs to be 'touched up' by revisiting it.

So in that sense, he can retain the fog of war like SotA was planning, where full opaque initially, then semi-opaque if it needs revisiting.

 

So would areas become monotone again to show areas that have changed? Personally, the monotone vs filled in map didn't appeal to me. so the player has a magic map that fills in as he explores it? I was under the impression we wouldn't really have a minimap system for reference, due to the way things would continuously change.

 

I think totally unexplored areas would be grey (fogged). Once you explored them once, you could see the terrain, but it would be dim except for where you currently are, which would appear more brightly lit.

 

actually we will have a "world map house decoration" and "optional minimap system for the directionally impaired"

 

Well the overworld map is by no means a 100% accurate assessment. Players would have to travel to keep it up to date. that's why emerging 3d content underneath would be key. The original fog of war from the SotA prototype could even be brought into this system. I just said unjustified, because when you look down at an unfilled map, you dont see swirly fog... but blank space. Maybe the map shows nothing at all?

 

Right.. and what would be more weird, blank space or a fog? because terrain can change too... I guess it might be something you'd have to see in action, might be equal.

It reminds me of this jaguar 3d flying game that AVGN recently reviewed, there is nothing and then suddenly stuff pops up in front of you, very discombobulating. although you were flying around and had to react so not exactly the same.

 

Totally, all the animations and user flow are very hands-on trial and error.

Yeah movement would be much more slow and deliberate, if done well I couldn't see it being that disorienting. Maybe just a simple fade in like fog, but an invisible fog? *shrug

 

@Mishri, terrain can change, but given my suggestion that terrain you have seen appears dim, that is a representation of your memory of that area. If you travel there again, your map would be updated for the condition the terrain now has if it has changed.

 

@Owain really loving that idea!

 

Yep, or if using the color example, colors fade over time over areas you haven't visited. Perhaps even the drawing on the map could fade too, not just the colors. How vibrant and colorful the map looks is dependent on how recent you visited it, i.e. your memory of it.

 

Yeah, dimming the terrain would be a good way to indicate what is out of your field of view for areas you've already explored.

 

Dom John's ideas are really strong, and I think they add a huge amount of integration to the idea of the traveling map. It feels less like you are jumping into a different game which breaks the illusion of one world, and more like you are consulting your personal (albeit somewhat magical) map.

Maybe there could be a cartographer in town who you can take your map to for a weekly or bi-weekly update of the "latest updates" of what has been discovered.

Dom John should present his idea to the devs and RG. It is a logical, sound approach, and very creative.

 

**Updated**
Was beaten to the punch in some bits here by a prior comment. Good job.

I'm going to over reach and call Guild Wars 2 state of the art in MMOs at the moment (When it's not giving me bizarre black screens of death. Cleared up when I downloaded, installed RIFT Lite with a threat of changing games so the code is obviously sentient) but they have a nice thing with their zone maps where a broad and colourful brush stroke style gives way to finer detail when you explore a new location. That idea isn't new, WoW was doing it with the parchment drawn map and so on but it's an interesting idea to also run in reverse.

Perhaps in Shroud over time or if things change, like for a content update where a meteor devastates a location bringing horrors from a distant star and rare crafting elements along with it, you 'forget' the tile and it's state changes back to a pre-exploration look? Run through it in the fog of war and 'Hold on, this is different from what I remember.'

I don't want to have to play whack-a-mole jumping in and out of scenes trying to find updated tiles as we end up with the same problem GW2 suffers from along with every other EverQuest derivative MMO has, unless you're running back there for gathering or there's a champion mob whose brains you want to bash in you won't be that motivated to rediscover an area again and will just use waypoints to port around the place.

As for the Catacombs I'd imagine it'll be a popular if not a dangerous way to travel, I suppose it's a question of how dangerous the surface dwellers are to one another. Were the catacombs in existence chances are you'd need a party to make a run to specific areas but as we've seen with raid elitism it might turn into a 'you don't have the right gear so you can't come with us' thing.

 

I support the use of the dual scale map and instances. Given it is not familiar it will take some getting used to from an immersion perspective but from a development and single world (no shards) perspective it is absolutely necessary.