Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Time Lord, Apr 16, 2022.
I'm new here so I guess my opinion isn't going to be very informed but does anyone here remember the beta for UO? We killed everything and since the old respawning system was based on creatures breeding nothing new would respawn after we murdered everything. I have played a LOT of alpha's and betas since UO and this game doesn't feel like a beta to me.
If you want to call this game 'unfinished', sure that works, but ESO is also technically unfinished since a lot of us old Elder Scrolls fans know there are zones they haven't yet added into ESO yet but they exist in the Elder Scrolls lore. What about DDO? Technically doesn't it have everything that exists in the DnD world? Of course not, so is it finished?
I don't know about you guys but I feel like a MMO can only be called finished once it's no longer supported, so Tera is definitely finished...
Now in regards to 100% crowd funded projects, there's quite a lot of indie MMO's that meet this requirement and most don't make it to release. I've personally invested into quite a few crowd funded MMO's that just didn't make it. Nevermind crowd funded, I've also invested in a bunch of supposed AAA MMO's and they have also crashed and burned hard. Archeage barely lasted four months before it died a terrible death, sure it's kinda still around but not really.
I can actually name a whole bunch of unfinished crowd funded MMO's but the one I'm most annoyed about was The Repopulation, it was supposed to be something like SWG but it had serious issues in dev and just died hard. How about Life is Feudal: MMO, or Xyson? Anyone remember Firefall or Hellgate or or or or......
This is a different category of unfinished, although they seem to be driveling out content. Since you are new, there is a lot of history missed. If you're having fun, that is all that matters.
A few opinions follow.
Not every game needs to be a billion dollar game with millions of players. Yeah, we could all go play World of Warcraft, or Diablo Immortal, or whatever, and many of us have for a time. I'm here because of what SoTA is, which is a niche fantasy RPG with multiplayer elements.
The struggle with niche titles with modest player-bases however is "how do we monetize this smaller-scale player-base to support the ongoing development of the game?" Eventually the kickstarter money runs out and you have to run the project on its own momentum. For a sub-million playerbase, you need to have a high average revenue per player. On the other hand, you don't want to do this in a way that turns your playerbase off, because this just undermines the long term growth. The monthly "rewards program" is something that could be the primary mover but you'd need a bigger playerbase for that to be true. Not being privy to the financials my gut is that there needs to be more things players want to buy in the store, and there needs to be a drive to pull in new players and old returning players. Maybe adding a tier to the rewards program a step higher than $9. DDO (which while probably having a bigger playerbase than SoTA is still relatively niche in MMO terms) does something kind of like this on its expansions, there are different tiers. Are the highest tiers "worth it"? Probably only to the most dedicated. But whales pay the bills. Nothing wrong with that. I think if SoTA could find a way to make dollars from releasing new content, this might help move things forward. It's a complex topic.
So what your saying is, we need...
What we need, more than anything, is to get more people in the game, and retain them. That’s our #1 issue.
Gaining money from the already small retained players, isn’t the solution.
That's a catch-22, the only way to get more players in the game would be to make changes that would alienate the existing player base, i.e. transforming the game into something that isn't a grindfest.
That’s certainly your opinion. That however is not mine from various testing and research over the years as I continue to play.
Player count seems to favor my opinion, and I guess plenty of testing and research went into the Edsel as well. I'm not trashing on the game, grindfests can do well, but by now pretty much anyone interested in a grindy UO successor has probably wander by at some point so getting new players is going to need something drastic.
I know you have tested a lot. You can tell in your awesome guides that I use all the time. Question, have you expressed what your testing and research show that might help new players stay with Catnip? I would think you hold some type of good standing with them due to all you help with new players and all your guides.
Perhaps you have a different perspective that could be tried to help keep new players in the game. I think at least they should hear you out and try some of your ideas. Thanks again for all your help!!
I see the same problems here I saw in UO, and it's kinda heart breaking. Among other things, this is where the feeling of "beta" comes in. UO was/is a constant cycle of "we're gonna do this!" with bits and pieces being put in all the time, but somethings never getting finished or in some cases never started at all. People bored.. ok spice up fishing. Well not everyone likes that.. ok add treasure maps.. yeah ok, same stuff and in no time everyone has the locations memorized.. oh crafters need love! people are tired of running everywhere, lets add rune books! GUARDS BANK VENDOR BUY!!!! um lets add work orders!! Ug piles and piles of orders.. I know, lets add elves!!! ok more everything added.. people aren't happy.. hey lets make a better sequel! nooo nope... hrmm hey this is 10 years old, lets update to 3d/enhanced!! well poop, that didn't work.. gargoyles anyone?!? players getting tired of the oker's, let's make candy land!! uh I mean trammel. Ahah! Let's make them fight the Dread Horn, with the same frost dragon everyone has but.. we'll make them take turns muahahah!! OH Hey how about a virtue system that will only take 20 years to complete?!?! and on and on and on...
There is a beginning.. no middle, and no end. And that's where the unfinished feeling comes from. I remember.. oh the mysterious city of Wind.. only a select few can find its location and enter it, what mysteries await? What are they up to?!?! Well, it was a demon guarding the entrance, and about 3-4 npc's wandering into walls and zero anything else.
We're what, seven(?) years in.. What is the Oracle?! What caused the Fall, who caused it? Where are the Cabalsist hiding when they're not causing zero damage to towns they attack that we bypass? Why are there so many empty towns with NPC's that will gladly take my gold but refuse to tell me their name? Are there only 3 Titans.. I thought the Guardian was the Red Titan.. why are the Cabalists as large as Titans? Made it through episode one.. I think.. Who was the bad guy? I must have won, I have this low powered shroud, and three sparkly dread artifacts I can't use.. which kind remind me of what would happen if LB's royal regalia would be if they were corrupted.. Is Arabella an automaton? Who are the succumbus looking statues at the ruins of Alabastia?! My map says Oracle Colossus.. Why?!? Those sneaky Kolbalds. I strongly suspect the used to be called lizardmen.. but they're tunneled under everywhere, what are they up to??! Oh wait.. hey they spiced up fishing!! Not a fan but I hear we have treasure maps on the way.. and another race to play, maybe elves, idk... probably have stoneworking in the works, and different type trees coming too.... man I miss things like the Battle of Trinsic...
I'm just saying it's been a long time since release day. The story has gone no where. (yeah I know, book #2 coming finally and maybe episode 2 someday), no events, no maps. Even small stories here and there would be nice to flesh it out. One good quests line, beginning to end would be worth so much more than adding more fish. Hell, I can hand you a virtue/ anti virtue system, here some samples..
Please sir/ma'am spare a coin! There's no work for someone like me what can't see!
a) Give coin. (gain Compassion)
b) No, sorry not today.
c) Take coin. (Gain Deceit)
after every interaction there's a chance the beggar was really a thief, player loses 2-20 gold.
Bleed till it Hurts
Donate blood at town healer!
A) Sure! Take as much as you want! - Gain Sacrifice + 20 min debuff on STR
B) Gulp! Maybe next time..
C) Sure! Take as much as you want! (inject with slime ooze) - Gain Despise + 20 min debuff on Focus (from laughing at your own deed)
Hired to guard an empty tent, battle is going baddly for defenders..
A) Guard tent (stay close) - Gain Honor, Gain Destard
B) Leave tent to fight - Gain Valor, Gain Dishonor
C) Loot the tent and RUN!! - Gain Dishonesty, Gain Dishonor, Gain Destard
P.S. What is the Collesium in Central Brit for?!?!
I hear this a lot. The feedback from those I've invited to play the game all say the same thing ( to varying degrees ). Some love the game, others are more 'meh', and everyone tell's me the game feels unfinished.
Every single one :/
I won't go into the details. I think we've brought up a number of concerns (even in this thread).
Just little things. But enough for people to notice...
And yes I still play several hours a week. I'm not going anywhere
Ever present, always watching ~TL~
It was supposed to be a location for the "theatre system" that never got implemented.
I guess it might be more appropriate to say that it could be a mixture of those two. Obviously, either one would be good. Both would be good. And a little of both could be good.
I do echo other posters in saying however that whatever we do to bring in new people, it's important that it doesn't end up radically changing anything that the established base enjoys. And I figure you guys know that well enough.
I guess the question becomes "how do you bring people in?" The style of SoTA appeals, in my opinion, to a sort of old-school player, of which there are more than there used to be but will have nothing like the numbers of games with more modern playstyles. Maybe some kind of affiliate/mentor program with existing players to kind of drive new player signups a bit more organically? The ROI on that is pretty high compared to a conventional marketing campaign.
Turn the Colosseum into a Madison Square Garden type deal. Have it for the top SotA Professional PVPer's. The heels and babyfaces can cut promo videos on each other and fight it out in the Colosseum. Imagine the losing PVPer respawning and asking, "where am I?" The ref says, "Hell, boy, you're in the Colosseum!" Or maybe do SotA prize fighting with the pugilism skill. Maybe this ought to be in wish list or game features.
Nobody is gonna make a billion bucks off this either way, I just want to see the game continue to be supported and receive incremental improvements.
Also, and this is probably an obvious "duh" to a lot of people, but I would say that there are two things to consider about new work on the game.
Ask a question like "what would bring old players back?"
Now in a perfect world, you would have done the "No Man's Sky" recovery plan, where they carefully collected all the gripes of all the people who quit and categorized them into things that are fixable on a given timeline. It's hard to make people happy if you don't know what made them unhappy.
But I know from my experience, the main thing that can sometimes get me to give a second look to game that I've quit is when they release some new content, and I'm notified that there is new content.
Because new content does TWO things. Obviously, it is what it is: new content to play. But it's also a message. And that message is: "you know that game you figured was doomed to limp along in maintenance mode? turns out they are developing new stuff! come and see!" Perhaps a launch of some meaningful new content (or even simply compiling the content-related releases for a 6-month period and narratively promote that as a content release, because for all intents and purposes to a returning player, it is a single content event).
Not trying to tell people what to do. Obviously I'm just some noob who showed up and is enjoying the game. But I see lots of possible routes and opportunities for growth.
I like this idea "PvP Arena Abduction", very Treky !
We do have a large community that return from time to time and they are continually interested in our progress, checking for the next big thing...
"They return or their house would fall down" ~TL~
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