Masterwork and Enchant option weights

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Jefe, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. Jefe

    Jefe Avatar

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    Have the masterwork and enchant weights been changed?

    Tests with 120-140 masterwork and enchant type/power skills are generating predominantly minor options for me; whereas, previously minor only showed up rarely or when the regular options were consumed.

    Reference skill levels used to test are: Mw 140, Mw Mastery 100, Mw Chain 135

    Masterworking chain chests currently and have had multiple instances now where I end up with minor minor minor options on a fresh item cycling through revisions when available.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  2. Adam Crow

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    How many times did it happen? Those minors have always seemed to pop up more for me, I'm pretty sure they're weighted that way, so minors pop up the most. I've never felt like they only come up after the others have been used. I'm planning to do some crafting today, I'll keep an eye out and see if I notice anything funky.
     
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  3. Jefe

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    For 30 chests, rough guesstimate would be in the 20s for minor minor minor. Note this includes rerolls.
    Major Strength occurred twice for me out of the entire session.
     
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  4. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I always get my minors in the first and second pages with a random surprise major every on 6 enchant/mw.
     
  5. Elgarion

    Elgarion Community Manager Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I'll be diving heavily into the enchants soon. Durability cost adjustments, bonus amounts, non-level scaling effects, etc., all will be looked at. Probably a bit in R94 fixing existing ones with a heavier dive in R95 to introduce some new ones. I'll get a data gathering thread going to take suggestions a bit before that work to point me in some good directions.
     
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  6. Adam Crow

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    That sounds like some crazy bad luck. I sat down last night with the intention of making belts until I got a good strength one. First belt was both major str, both reg str, and 1 minor str for 43 total. So needless to say I didn't get a chance to check to see if there was anything funky going on. I obviously got really lucky too, I'm not trying to use my experience to discredit what happened to you. There very well may be something weird going on, but just wanted to point out that good rolls are still happening for belts at least.
     
  7. Scanphor

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    Please please please before you start adding new ones look at removing those that are essentially "slugs" when you are trying to make something

    I would also suggest a good idea when "rerolling" it not keep giving you options you have already rejected
     
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  8. Scanphor

    Scanphor Avatar

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    OMG you don't want to know (neither do I really but we're approaching 50) how many belts I've made recently trying (unsuccessfully) to get the major/regular/minor str for both MW and enchant.... And I think I've only had 3 of those come out as your first attempt!!
     
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  9. Adam Crow

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    Are you trying to do them in order minor>reg>major or just take them in any order? Either way, that's some crappy luck hope you get it soon!
     
  10. Scanphor

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    Thanks :)

    My flowchart is:

    MW first then enchant

    On each attempt take the first str that comes up

    If get a fail or no str comes up on an attempt stop and salvage item

    That's worked well for me so far in doing my gear with minimum silver and gold use - but belts have been a royal PITA!!

    Is there a better way to do it to maximise chance / minimise mats usage?
     
  11. Jefe

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    In my case crafting to boost skills. There were cases of good luck within that sample set. However, as I understand it, as you increase in skill the sliding window of that skill also affects what options predominantly show up. Previously, a round of boosting armor enchant using belts and backpacks generated a similar outcome. So given that I have had multiple instances of 30ish item crafting sessions that were different in appearance from say 4-5 releases ago where at lower skill +2/regular options were the majority and +1 or +3 would pop in as 1 or two options on the roll. I figure I have done enough homework to ask the question.
     
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  12. Tirrag

    Tirrag Avatar

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    There are no words to properly say how happy this news makes me :)
     
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  13. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    You and me both ! ;)
     
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  14. Scanphor

    Scanphor Avatar

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    Finally! Must have taken about 100 belts to get 3/3 minor/regular/major

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Adam Crow

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    Congrats!
     
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  16. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    The higher we raise skills - the more proficient/efficient we expect to become in said skill.

    It costs a LOT of hard earned crafting pool xp's to do this, and yet - no matter how much effort we expend to raise them, we are still subject to the downright craziness of an RNG that simply doesn't care. I will never understand the logic in imposing this on us. We've paid the asking price in xp's the game demands, and yet it goes to little avail because of RNG. :mad:

    @Scanphor Would you mind sharing with us your MW skill levels ?
     
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  17. Scanphor

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    Not a secret :) - all relevant skills @ 120, expert crafting stations and a full set of the new jewellery for both the smithing and alchemy
     
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  18. Coswald_Dirthmire

    Coswald_Dirthmire Bug Hunter

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    I have to say, I absolutely love the crafting system and think it would be a shame if forging high end pieces became trivial. The challenge and strategy of making high end pieces gives them value, both in terms of achievement and in game gold cost, and it acts as a necessary sink on resources (ore, beetles, leather, etc) and igg (through fuels, molds, tools).

    We're given a ton of power through gear... 47 stat on a belt slot! It seems appropriate that this is a very difficult piece to make; it's the highest crafted stat slot there is, giving 10 int/dex/str higher than the chest and legs.

    It's not to say the balance of things is perfect, but losing some of the strategy/complexity and much of the difficulty would be such a huge blow to the joy of crafting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
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  19. Coswald_Dirthmire

    Coswald_Dirthmire Bug Hunter

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    First off, congrats on getting the belt you were after! I know that makes these tips a little late for this project, but hopefully they're still useful to you or others in future.

    There's a number of ways to go about crafting, and probably as many ways as there are crafters. Since you're scrapping belts that fail and going straight on all MW first, followed by all Enchants, I am going to assume you're looking only for a full stat belt, and don't care to have any with less stat to give/trade/sell later. That changes the strategy significantly.


    If I'm looking to minimize costs on belts I'll usually enchant first, since gold ore is cheaper than silver ore. This makes belts that fail early less costly, but if you're mining the ore yourself and prefer gathering silver this of course might be switched. That said, there's usually some element of back and forth. Doing some Enchants, then some MW, then back to enchant lets the piece evolve a bit more naturally and can save some ingots if you decide to go for a 4th (more on that later).


    This is the intuitive thing to do, but it doesn't let your revisions work for you! With your Mastery skills at 120 you'll be getting at least 3 windows of options every time, sometimes more. That means if you have a fresh belt the pool of possible options includes Major Strength, Strength, and Minor Strength. There's other options in there diluting the pool (dex, int, focus, health) but enough Strength options that if you revise past the first window of options you're very likely to see at least one more Strength option before you run out of revisions.

    For this reason I will almost always do at least one revision if the first window of options does not contain Major Strength. The risk is minimal, since I will likely see some form of strength again to take, but it gives me at least one more chance to roll for a Major Strength right off the bat. Almost all belts will end their 1st roll with some form of strength, and I've greatly increased my chances of it being a major, the hardest one to get.


    This will come down to personal preference, but a full stack belt can tolerate a fail. The starting durability is 165, and majors cost 28, regulars 20, minors 10, fails 25. That means 165-28-28-20-20-10-10=49 durability on a stacked belt (which is what you achieved in the end) Belts last a very long time, so while I personally don't require this much durability (honestly I'd normally roll a 3/3 49dur belt for a 4th) it's of course a matter of personal preference.

    Tolerating a single fail would put the ending dur at 24, which while low will still last for many hundreds of hours of adventuring before needing a major repair, assuming good to great weapon preservation skills (belts are classed as weapons in this regard). Since the 3rd masterwork or enchant is essentially a coinflip, basically a 50-50 chance, tolerating a single fail makes getting a 3/3 significantly easier.

    But! There is an even cooler option, which is missing one of the Strengths and pressing on in the hopes of a 3/4. Let's say you got through all your Revise windows and were forced to take a random stat, but kept on the belt. With luck one might end up with 47str/7dex (29dur) or 47str/50health (21dur) or 47str/4dex (39dur) or so on. If you're not careful chasing these 3/4s can cost more ingots than it's worth, but if a perfectly masterworked strength belt rolled a Major Dex on it's 2nd enchant I would shudder at the thought of just trashing it.


    Awesome to see you got there in the end, and that's a fantastic belt to be sure! Belts are rough, they have a large pool of options, no durability on the masterwork side, and they can fit a ton of stat which means eating a ton of durability. But that is their very joy! One can technically make a belt that holds around 60 primary stat! Imagine an air mage walking around in a 33int/27dex carpacian belt.

    It's what even makes this possible that makes it difficult. We're given a wide range of options to choose from, and since major/regular/minor is available on both sides it's very hard to get it, but we're allowed to get it. Dex/Str backslots are the only other thing that allow a full 3/3 stack of a single primary stat, and they're not nearly as permissive in the mixing of stats for niche or high end builds. Belts are arguably our most important base stat slot now, at least for most builds, and I absolutely love working them.
     
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  20. Scanphor

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    Awesome advice, thanks for taking the time to share :D