Pecan Nuts removed from Vendors

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Botocks, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. Botocks

    Botocks Avatar

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    There is already a thread going on in General Discussion.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/murdering-squirrels.169285/

    But i think the Feedback belongs here too:

    The latest change to remove Pecan Nuts from NPC Vendors is, in my opinion, just ridiculous.
    Players who run a Buff Food Business need thousands of Pecan Nuts per Month.

    Please reconsider this change or give us a viable alternative like Pecan Nuts Seeds for Agriculture.
     
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  2. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    From the patch notes :

    Many cooking recipes now result in increased product, such as Butter, Flour, Pie Dough, Beef Stock, Cooking Oil, Nut Butter, Vegetable Stock, and Yeast.

    Cinnamon Bark, Browncap Mushrooms, and Pecan Nuts have been removed from NPC merchants. All 3 items have increased chances to appear in Grey and Yellow Supply Bundles, and as Storehouse Container rewards.
    • Cinnamon Bark now also has significant chances to drop from Fauns.
    • Pecan Nuts now have increased drop rates with squirrels and can also be found in containers and destructible crates throughout Novia.
    • Browncap Mushrooms can also be looted from all tiers of fungus creatures.

    So it drops from more sources, more frequently and you'll need less for the same outcome.

    If you haven't already, maybe set up some buy orders see if that can help your supply issues.
     
  3. Elgarion

    Elgarion Community Manager Moderator SOTA Developer

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    As with anything we're trying to put into the hands of players, we'll be monitoring their availability and increase/decrease drop rates accordingly.

    In regards to pecan nuts, they will become more available in R93 with a new scene that will include a lot of squirrels for some fun (demented?) squirrel slaying rampages.

    Also a daily in Tanglemire will gain a batch of these as a reward (could patch in before R93).

    I'll also review the recipes to see if they use too many per recipe and perhaps tone them down a tad as another way to adjust.

    I'll examine Reaper loot as well and perhaps increase them there as well.

    I'll keep an eye on it, please continue with feedback and provide other ideas that do not include putting them back on a vendor.

    So hopefully if the increases that have already occurred were not enough, this could push things up quite a bit. Lots of ways to adjust this without dumping them back on a merchant as boring gold sink. Not sayin you'll have an unlimited supply and you won't need to rely on fellow players to purchase from, but you'll have more options beyond the increases coming very soon.
     
  4. Botocks

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    Thanks for the reply.

    With all due respect. Things coming in in R93 just doesn't do it. Changes are ok. But to change something and then let us wait another month for more alternatives than hunting thousands of squirrels is not good, sorry.

    My feedback is and was to create Pecan Nuts Seeds and put the whole thing in player hands. All other options i can think of include massive hours of grinding or praying that other players sell them for less than a fortune
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  5. Time Lord

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    I once had a pecan farm. It wasn't much, just 40 acers. It's still producing pecans with the "Millican Pecan Co." north/west of Austin.

    Pecan trees take 15 years to mature to bare a nut worth eating. They need watering but with long dry times between watering, unless it's been a good year with just the right amount of water. With proper care a pecan tree can last an average of 50 years.

    Aplying that same spirit to our game, mybe it could be possible, similar to our 25&50 y/old whiskey, where we could plant pecan trees which can last for 50 years, not bare nuts for their first 15 years and have very distant, yet tight watering times 2 times a year. There would be incentive to keep them planted, yet if the watering does not happen within the tight watering windows, then that year's crop can't be used.

    Just a thought, as pecan trees can be very fickle and the tree rats tend to take a toll on them as well.

    ps: Large sacks of zink LOL indeed!
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  6. Lilofee

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    I just did a calculation for August and I will need 17k of Pecan Nuts for one months batch of food creation.

    Pecan Nuts as part of Jar of Cooking Oil are unfortunately one of the most used ingredient for cooking:

    Jar of Cooking oil is used in 46 recipes out of the 108 we are cooking on a monthly basis.
    Additionally it is part of Nut Butter (using 8 nuts), which goes into 2 more food recipes.
    And Jar of Cooking Oil is part of Crackling and Oil, which is used in 3 recipes.

    So I can only ask you to not let us wait for one month. Because this will mean to destroy a business, that was build over 5 years, within some days.
     
  7. Widsith [MGT]

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    A rather poor move that shows that someone didn't think it through before pulling the trigger.

    A quickly implemented solution: Put them back on vendors at twice the price, and double it each succeeding release, at the same time adjusting recipes and drop rates while watching usage and prices. Push the market, instead of dropping a bomb on it.
     
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  8. Elgarion

    Elgarion Community Manager Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Patching in shortly: Nut Butter and Cooking Oil will utilize far less Pecan Nuts than before. This will likely be the largest factor in helping in this regard. Additionally, Grey and Yellow Supply bundles now have a greater chance to drop a stack of Pecan Nuts, Brown Cap Mushrooms, or Cinnaomon Bark (chance for one stack of these 3 items), which of course pushes these same changes into Storehouse Container rewards. Also... The little scavenger girl in Tanglemire now also provides a decently large stack of Pecan Nuts as a reward to the Missing Bones daily.

    That's fine, though their prices did already increase significantly a while back, I've done another round. Also patching in soon, I've put them back on vendors not quite to double their previous price. Now 25g instead of 15g. I'll continue to monitor the creation and destruction rates of these throughout the duration of R92 and make hopefully final adjustments for R93 (which even adds in more loot possibilities... Squirrel Hill in Sannio's upcoming scene Outlaw's Run as well as a new leaf pile resource type node Sannio has created which I can populate with little goodies.)

    I checked all the other drop rates elsewhere, and they look pretty good. There are lots of options for how these flow into the economy which I'll list below. If folks don't want to go look for these, they'll get them inadvertently anyway through many of these means. Players with no need for them will sell them to others. Squirrels likely wouldn't even be the primary source for these anyway, but guess that's the focus point in this thread. Crates, Containers, and Sacks etc would likely be ideal in this regard in sheer/quick quantities to acquire, and there are scenes full of them. Over the past many months, I've been pushing lots of goodies into those little fellas.

    In any case, here's a map of things you can get these from to include any of the newly added sources:

    Player Vendors
    Tanglemire Missing Bones Daily (New with R92)
    Grey Bundles (New with R92, Increased with Patch)
    Yellow Bundles (New with R92, Increased with Patch)
    Storehouse Container Rewards (New with R92, Increased with Patch)
    Sacks (New with R92)
    Destructible Crates & Containers (New with R92)
    Squirrels (Increased as of R92)
    Reapers
    Swamp Reapers
    Maple Trees (I guess squirrels carried them up there?)
    Pine Trees (I guess squirrels carried them up there?)
    NPC Merchants at 25g (Patching in, likely to be removed in R93, feel free to stock up if you find it necessary, but there should be enough to support any needs, especially with recipe requirement reductions already in place).
    Leaf Piles in Outlaw's Run (R93)
    Squirrel Hill in Outlaw's Run (R93)

    I'll continue to monitor and see what the drop and destruction rates are all this month to prep for any more changes in R93 if any.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I do understand the impatience folks can have with these types of events, but please do try to always keep feedback kind, considerate, and constructive. :) I'll always do my best to do what's best for the overall economy in these situations which promote player to player interactions, and if something goes afoul, I'll work doubly hard to fix. Having Pecan Nuts as yet another item on your vendor that could sell well is definitely an ultimate goal at the end of this adjustment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  9. CatweazleX

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    I like that things are removed from NPC vendors that players can harvest or produce. The pecan nut reduction in the recipe is of great help.
    Can Leaf Piles spawn near Trees and only during fall? Or change the outlook of harvest able trees during fall so that they have leaf piles from time to time and when they have on, they drop more pecan nuts when harvest?

    Whats missing:
    • Flask, empty jar glass and empty bottles
      • create 3 new recipes that uses the already existing glass recipe to create x empty flasks, x empty jar glasses and x empty bottles on the smelting table.
      • May add a recipes that create sand for glass blowing from gem fragments, quartz or pure elemental sand
      • May change the existing recipe to use sand for glass blowing instead of gem fragments
      • May add nice deco bottles, glasses, what ever, recipes for the smelting table (glass blowing)
      • (The empty Flask is already used by the alchemist, the empty jar glass already by cooks)
    • Milk:
      • Target a cow.
      • Use a empty bucket (crafted! or found?) from the utility bar.
      • That consumes the empty bucket and yields 1-5 buckets of milk, depending on skill (may from agriculture the harvest skill, or a new one)
      • Use 5 buckets of milk and 10 empty bottles on the cooking station to create 10 Bottles of Milk
      • There should also a chance to fail to get milk, either the cow is empty, it is a then ferocious bull that will attack you. or one is not skilled enough.
    • Sack of Salt
      • There are already salt notes that gives salt ingots and a recipe to craft a Sack of Salt. There should be more nodes. May also drops
      • One salt ingot should gives more the 2 Sacks of Salt (something between 4-6)
    • Sack of Sugar
      • Introduce a new plant for agriculture that is used to create sugar from
      • Create a recipe to create x Sacks of Sugar from x fruits of this plant
    • Sack of Flour
      • There are already recipes to create Sack of Flour from wheat.
    • Jar of Yeast Culture
      • There is already a recipe to "grow" the yeast culture. But a staring culture is required
      • May a recipe: Brown Mushroom, Wheat and an empty jar glass...
      • Or mushroom, wheat and bucket of water that create ingredients for a Yeast Culture Cask. After some time (a week or so) it yields 40 Jar of Yeast Culture (brewing)
    • Seeds
      • When the harvest skill is used one should get asked if fruits or seeds should be harvest. (or a new skill)
      • When seeds are chosen then 1-3 seeds (avg. 1.5) of this plant should be given.
      • This require a starting seed...
        • May a few plants in the scenes are harvest able and they yield the first 1-3 (avg. 2) seed to start with
        • May there should be sun flowers to harvest seeds from. The grown plants can then used for new seeds or with vases, planting beds and pots (crafted, from crafting npc and crown shop) to craft deco (carpenter)
        • May there are other deco plants made ready over time to grow them (like roses) and get the first seeds as descried above.
        • (The crown shop may only sell good looking vases, beds and pots and some seeds that are not available in a scene under crafting, simple looking ones should be craft able)
        • For planting beds and may pots the "deco" may not need to be crafted, simply do not harvest the plant. (a crafted version is not harvest able anymore, that may circumvent accidents)
    • A definable Vendor
      • This Vendor can be placed on lots and as town NPC
      • The owner defines which goods are accepted by the vendor (like buy orders) but the vendor always buys this goods like the ready made NPC vendors for towns (cooking, crafting, magic, ....)
      • The bought goods are then directly available for selling on the vendor. Goods are sell-able / buy-able like with every other ready made NPC vendor (as many as one wants, not stack wise)
      • More precisely this vendor is restocked by players and what it sells / buys is defined by the owner
      • Buying prices are the selling prices and set by the owner. *
      • The owner does not get gold from the sellings, the owner is payed by restocking like every other player.
      • Also the owner has not to stock gold on the vendor to pay the players. The gold comes from the game like it is when selling to ready made NPC vendors (non player vendors).
      • The reason behind it is, that players know from which ready made NPC Vendor they get what. With a definable Vendor one is able to set up such vendors for the town or the area (on lots)
      • With this, players have a fixed source to sell their goods to and buy from. The offers should not change to often.
      • When a product is out of stock then it is either out of stock or the vendor is restocked by the game at the prices the game wants to see (ex. pecan nuts at 25g instead of owner set 10g)
      • * an idea is, that such a vendor can hold 10k of each item. When the stock becomes near empty the buying prices are higher. When the stock becomes near full the buying prices are lower. The selling price is always the same.
      • * this may help that players distribute their goods to more of such vendors (the ones that buys at the highest price)
      • * the buying price is never higher as the selling price (to prevent abusing)
      • * the downside is, that players mostly sell to lower prices as they buy the goods. But that is already true for all ready made NPC vendors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  10. Lained

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    They were five gold each at Central Brittany docks.
     
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  11. Elgarion

    Elgarion Community Manager Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Lots of great input in here. I'll try to read through this today and see if there are any I can add to my to-do list. Thanks ;)
    Perhaps at some point. If you see any for sale at any price besides 25g, please let me know, but I just looked now, and this doesn't seem to be the current case. They're only in a single merchant loot table and their price is most definitely set for 25g with it patched in, so at this point there SHOULDN'T be any variation, but please nudge me if you see otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  12. Lilofee

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    I tested the pecan nut drops with the following results:
    - quest in Tanglemire = 30 nuts per day
    - Squirrels = average 5 nuts
    - Trees = average 8
    - daily 4 chests = average 16 per day per chest

    Still needing 12k Pecan Nuts per month to keep the cooking business running, which means:
    - daily quest = 900 nuts
    - daily chests = 1920 nuts
    -> need to kill 1.148 Trees or 1.836 Squirrels, maybe somewhat additional from bundles (not a safe quantity to calculate with)

    Price of pecan nuts was at 4 gold before the update. 25 is far beyond.

    This will be my last post in this forum, as I finally have decided to stop playing this game. Thanks to all players, who attended our shops for more than 5 years, it was always fun to cook for you.
     
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  13. Tahru

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    Sounds like there's a new commodity for profit in vendors. Another reason to work together. We need more like this.
     
  14. Coswald_Dirthmire

    Coswald_Dirthmire Bug Hunter

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    The price was 4gp per, but 5 nuts were required to make a single jar of cooking oil. The recipe is now 3 pecan nuts and 3 glass jars yields 3 oils. So an effective price change of 22gp per oil to 27gp per oil, and it can now be produced at 3x the rate.
     
  15. tyorl999

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    Sorry for leaving ...
    I understand yourr descision totaly.

    It was my pleasure to got food from your vendors all around the world all the years because I know, how many hours you had spend to create all the food and that there was not a great profit
     
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  16. Adam Crow

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    If anyone needs pecan nuts, feel free to contact me. I'll happily set up a vendor at no cost for players to add purchase orders for pecan nuts at the entrance of Novia Market. Just send me a pm on here or a message in game and I'll add you to the vendor.