Serpent Spine Mine (Ore Per Unit Of Time Not Nodes Per Mine)

Below are my numbers when mining ore in the Present Verdantis Mines and the New Serpent Spine Mines. These numbers are based on my mining skills and speed in mining. No Obsidian Potions were used. I would expect any ones numbers would vary from my umbers in some measure. In other words they are not precise because the variables (mining Skill, experience, etc.) are not constant for all players.

I did Verdantis Mine on my own, killing all the MOBs on the way down to the bottom of the mine. The new Serpents Mine was done with the help of 2 other Avatars who helped kill the MOBs on the way down to the lowest level but who did not participate in mining any of the ore.
The time is based on going from the top of each mine to what could be called the bottom, checking out all areas on the way down. I used Verdantis mine as an illustration of what the old Serpents Spine Mine was like prior to the change since Verdantis is basically a clone of the old Serpents Spine Mine.


Verdantis Mine - 12:35pm - 1:34pm (59 Minutes)

1st Level - Kobolds/Skeletons: Copper Nodes - 10, Silver Nodes - 3, Crystal Nodes - 0

2nd Level - Kobolds/Satyr/Earth Elem: Copper Nodes - 11, Silver Nodes - 0, Crystal Nodes - 19

3rd Level - Earth Elementals: Copper Nodes - 0, Silver Nodes - 13, Crystal Nodes - 15

Total: Copper Nodes: - 21, Silver Nodes - 16, Crystal Nodes - 34

Total Ore Nodes: Copper/Silver 37

Total Nodes Verdantis Mine: All Nodes 71

Actual Ore Mined: Copper/Silver: Copper 54, Silver 42

All Ore Mined in Time Above.: 96


New Serpents Spine Mine. 11:21pm - 12:58am (1 hour 37 minutes)

Platform 1 and Entrance: Iron Ore - 0, Silver Ore - 0 , Crystals - 0, Clay - 0

Platform 2: Iron Ore - 1, Silver Ore - 0, Crystals - 0, Clay - 0

Water Turn On Level: Iron Ore - 4, Silver Ore - 0 Crystals - 14, Clay - 3

Platform 3: Iron Ore - 0, Silver Ore - 1, Crystals - 0, Clay - 0,

Platform 4: Iron Ore - 5, Silver Ore - 1, Cystals - 0, C lay - 0 +2 Iron Ore in Chest

Platform 5: Iron Ore - 0, Silver Ore - 0, Crystals - 0, Clay - 0,

Water Area Level 2: Iron Ore - 15, Silver Ore - 0, Crystals - 14, Clay - 0

Spindrift Passage Area: Iron Ore - 2, - Silver Ore - 0, Crystals - 5, Clay - 0

Brittany Passage: Iron Ore - 1, Silver Ore - 0, Crystals - 1, Clay - 0

Equitas Passage: Iron Ore - 0, Silver Ore - 0, Crystals - 3, Clay - 0

Bottom Lich/Skeleton Area (No Way Out) : Iron Ore - 6, Silver Ore - 3, Crystals - 7, Clay - 0

Total Nodes: Iron Ore Nodes - 32, Silver Ore Nodes - 4, Crystals Nodes - 44, Clay Nodes - 3

Total: All Nodes - 83 +2 Iron Ore in Chest.

Actual Ore Mined: Iron Ore - 45 Includes +2 from chest, Silver Ore - 10

All Ore Mined in Time Above.: - 55


Mining Differences: New Serpent Spine Mine Time To Bottom - 91 Minutes, Verdantis Mine Time To Bottom - 59 Minutes

Time Difference (Longer for Serpents Mine) - 32 Minutes.


New Serpent Spine Ore Extracted: - 55 Ore
Verdantis Mine Time To Bottom : - 96 Ore

Ore Mined in Times Shown (Verdantis Mine more Ore in Less Time) - 41 Ore

In Summary for mining for 32 minutes longer in the New Serpent Spine Mines I extracted less than half of what I would have extracted in the old Serpent Spine Mines. In addition in the new Serpent Spine Mines I was assisted by two other Avatars who took care of the MOB's. Without that help and on my own I would estimate you could add another 30 minutesor more to the time in the New Sepent Spine Mine. In addition the Bottom level with a Lich and Hardened Skeletons is going to be far too dificult for one fairly trained individual, let alone there is no way out of the mine from there. That consists of 16 Nodes that are virtually impossible to mine for an average player.

So basically new Serpent Spine Mine which is beautiful in design is as far as mining is concerned useless. It is no wonder more and more players are checking this area off their list for mining. This makes mining for Iron Ore here basically non existent. And now they intend to do the same thing with the Verdantis Mine and Copper?

I am now totally confused. I have no idea what they want or are trying to accomplish and their answers are bordering on a total lack of understanding the difference between boring, grinding monotony and a feeling of the fun of accomplishment and reward for having completed a specific task.

In talking to a couple of GM Blacksmiths,the number of Ore needed to make a Copper or Iron Ore, halfway decent +1 (highest durability) Suit with 2 Masterworkings and 2 Enchantments would be approximately 3000 Ore. To make the same suit with an enhanced metal would take approximately 6000 Ore. The Total on such a Suit would make it a +7 - +9. Not anywhere near a top end Suit of lets say +14 or more.

Extracting ore from the old Serpents Mine to get this much ore would have taken approximately 30 hours (3000 Ore / 96 Ore = 31.25 Trips * 59 Minutes = 1843.75 minutes / 60 = 30.7 Hours). To get enough Ore for a Meteoric, White Iron, Constantine, Bronze etc would take approximately 60 hours. All for just one suit. Forget the idea of making suits for anyone else.

Extracting Ore from the New Serpent Spine Mines to get the same ore needed for above would take approximately 84 hours. (3000 Ore / 55 = 54.54 Trips * 91 Minutes = 5054.14 Minutes / 60 = 84.23 Hours). To get enough Ore for a Meteoric, White Iron, Constantine, Bronze etc. would take approximately 168 Hours. If I were a Blacksmith I'd tell customers to go get their own Ore and bring it to me.

The only good thing about these changes to these two mines for me at least is I will be spending far less real dollars on buying COTA's for Obsidian Potions of Capacity, Expedience and Precision. For the amount of time involved for such little ore it is not worth buying these potions.

After several Original Forum Posts with hundreds comments and likes on the uselessness of the new Serpent Spine Mine as a Mine, one would think that someone in @Devs, would care.

 

The thing that really concerns me is that it already takes so long to collect materials and it's so costly to make good gear that it's just not worth the effort to make and sell gear to other players. As it is there's just no way to earn gold or even have fun doing it. I sincerely believe that making the resources harder to obtain is not helping the economy.

 

I used to mine quite a bit. I've watched mining go from several hundred ores mined in an hour to 200 an hour. If you are stating that you have mined less than 100 ore an hour, then I don't expect to mine again. What I don't understand is how prices for ore have stayed the same with less and less ore being produced. Demand hasn't fallen for ore and there is less ore being mined right? What am I missing? I know there's probably a bunch of ore still out there that was mined long before the recent releases, but the writing is on the wall. Ore is harder to mine in the same capacity as it was before. The rate in player marketplace for ore is 50k or $15.00 for 1000 ore (silver, gold, etc...). If it takes 10 hours to mine 1000 ore, why would anyone mine the stuff for $1.50 an hour? That may be a great wage in some places in this world, but...........but..........but....... mind numbing for sure!

 

Iron is alot harder to come by now, that is for sure.

 

Copper can still be found in Graff. Silver might be more rough after Verdantis and Elysium are done.

 

I agree w/ the OP that the metric of note is ore per time unit and not node per mine if the devs are interested in keeping things as they were prior to uncloning. That is a big and uncertain if.

If on the other hand the devs are setting up a new standard by which to balance the general and/ or regional economies, then the OP concern is a moot point and it remains to be seen how this new aim plays out. My personal opinion leans towards the latter of these two scenarios.

I also feel it was disingenuous of the devs to not state that this type of aim fueled the changes made to the mines but instead to defend the changes when criticized w/ "the mines have the same amount of ores".

Re @Candor Atlantica post re ore prices not going up, once these "more time unit per ore" realities set in, prices should adjust upward.

 

I'd say there are several factors. One, there were mining exploits that took place early in persistence release that a lot of Miners took advantage of. There will be some that will not call it an exploit so fine, call it a Developers Snafu. Whichever it led to a large surplus of Ore. Second, For the past months since persistence you have had Miners building their skills to get to GM. Making Armor past a +1 (highest durability) and 2 enhancements and 2 masterworks was difficult and generally meant they could only make enough for themselves and a few friends. Third, Training ones character early on was don't a lot with the Armor acquired as a reward with ones account (Benefactor Armor). Fourth, Unless someone sold a lot of their reward items, I do not see how anyone has accumulated large amounts of gold in order to change the supply and demand dynamic of this game. I know as for me and several of my friends we barely make enough to restock our Reagents, Food and Repair Kits, let alone get enough gold to afford any kind of really high level suit.

Since every Economy is based on Supply and Demand, the way things are now, in my opinion, we will never get a vibrant economy going here because they are spending way too much time worried about a runaway gold Supply and trying to control the Economy too much. They use the excuse that UO got out of control, which it did. But the reason UO got out of Control was that Several Players Exploited the system and found ways to Duplicate the Gold. Gold could be stacked in 60,000 piles of gold. Players were duping those time after time after time after time until they had Billions in Gold. One person asked 900 Billion in Gold far a Castle in UO and got it. The Developers did nothing to stop the exploiting. That is what happens to an Economy when you flood it with Gold. It was the Exploits that destroyed the UO economy. But here they are so tight they squeak. SOTA has not factored in any ability to raise Discretionary Income. Without it, we will continue to spend only on those things we need to live from day to day. We will never have the gold to buy that New Suit or Fancy Clothes. Crafting is not going to succeed until they let go of the reins enough to let people save some gold. Right now killing a High Level MOB gets one about as much Gold and a Low Level MOB. That in itself would fix a large part of the problem.

 

Though I agree w/ your examples on what a broken and gold flooded economy looks like (sadly, UO) and I also agree w/ your assessment of SotA's economy being "squeaky" tight, I've got to disagree w/ your assessment re earning an income in SotA. There are many ways, all requiring finding a public (demand) for ones wares (supply).

For me, the current answer to earning gold in game has been mining. Mining is something anyone can do; it is within reach of every avatar. Moreover, mining allows for earning producer xp which can in turn be used to gain in crafting skills which can in turn open further doors in market participation. Mining serves adequately as a source of income and platform for growth.

I am gladdened to hear the devs vocalize their concerns and understanding re the SotA economy and see firsthand their work towards safeguarding it. If I can be of help w/ advice on how to get by in this economy, please feel free to pm me.

 

@fonsvitae
If you leave Ore out of all that, then what "wares" are you planning on selling to the public ?

 

[QUOTE="fonsvitae, post: 794736, member: 183459"

For me, the current answer to earning gold in game has been mining. Mining is something anyone can do; it is within reach of every avatar. Moreover, mining allows for earning producer xp which can in turn be used to gain in crafting skills which can in turn open further doors in market participation. Mining serves adequately as a source of income and platform for growth.
[/QUOTE]

Herein lies the problem... The problem is not the issue of mining, it is the issue where you can mine and use that gain to raise OTHER Skills not associated with mining. Mining has always been a way to make money in game just like gathering hides, suet, etc... You can make gold selling these materials which is how the market should run. The only benefit you create by making the resources less and less is the now "raised prices" 0ne can charge for farmed materials. You make them harder to obtain, you can now charge even more for them making said person richer that he was before..

I say you mine, the exp you gain goes ONLY into mining skill, you go chopping down trees, said skills go into that skill as well and NO other skills.

 

Your concern is well stated.

I have a better question: are you saying that there are no markets in SotA where one can turn a profit?

If your answer is No, you've answered your own question (as to the viability of markets). If your answer is Yes, I humbly suggest that you track down a diverse group of vendor owners in SotA and ask them re their experience.

 

Answer my and I'll answer yours..... Fair enough ?