Upcoming Stealth Changes (from twitter)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anpu, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

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    Digging in deep on stealth stuff right now. Tell my your thoughts and concerns with it before I waste time fixing the wrong things. Mostly regarding stealth in PVP but also PVE as well.

    https://twitter.com/catnipgames/status/1362379809209344000

    So lots of feedback on stealth. Also spent some time talking with some team members about it and I think some big changes are coming. Probably killing camouflage (or moving it to replace distract) and then adding a new skill w/long cool down that can clear aggro to lose PVE guys

    https://twitter.com/catnipgames/status/1362733876708261889

    Just passing this on FYI.
     
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  2. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

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    Just some feedback from Discord:

    It seems the current mechanic is for archers to basically shoot around the scene to uncover stealthed players. But what was probably intended, was to uncover players was to actually use the Reveal Hidden skill (and/or Elysian Illumination?). But players don't use that, because they can just shoot arrows to reveal them.

    That *seems* like a broken mechanic then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
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  3. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    An archery nerf I would actually support!
     
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  4. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    I'm sure that this is an extremely complex issue as far as PvP goes. For instance, what happens if you're stealthed and you end up in someones AOE? Are you immune to the damage? Does it reveal you? When you wander by an NPC, do they bark at you? If you can't be targeted or damaged by another player while stealthed, what are the conditions for entering stealth mode (because people will obviously use it to get away)?

    That's only barely scratching the surface of all the possible issues.
     
  5. GMDavros

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    Is it though? Seems that if you were being stealthy and got shot a few times you might become decidedly less stealthy. I do understand game mechanics must allow for good game play, but it seems odd that you'd remove an easily useable method to bolster the use of another one simply because it exists or was intended to be the way to accomplish something?

    Fenris
     
  6. necronut

    necronut Avatar

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    This is experience talking. You: An archer, facing north, firing arrows. OR A mage, facing north, firing arrow spells. Me: A stealthed character approaching from the south.

    Your arrows/spells literally curve around and hit me in the face.

    That is broken. Period. I'm glad they're finally fixing that.

    And to answer Barugon's concerns, AOE, like Immolate absolutely should affect a stealther. Full stop. If you're stealthed and you walk through a fire ring, or similar spell, or roll up on a mage surrounded by flame, or similar spell, you should absolutely be pulled out of stealth.

    EDIT: Fixing stealth is the thing that brings me back to playing the game faithfully. And you can bet that if something in my build makes me feel OP, I'm not going to hide that fact. I'm going to complain. I want stealth to work, not become the new meta for people who don't want to learn how to play so they pick the easiest DPS and never leave that build.
     
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  7. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

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    Taking damage could add a stacking negative stealth modifier. Once the modifier exceeds your stealth bonus your stealth is lost.

    The Cuttlekin ring also shows that it is possible to have characters become transparent, but not completely. Stealth skill could work to where once it is below a threshold you start becoming visible.

    The main thing I think is that a stealth player should have options and engaging gameplay, and heat seeking attacks should not be the primary means of dealing with players you shouldn't be able to see.

    Also, if the community as a whole agrees that one shot kills should not be a thing in PVP play, then stealth players need a means of setting up a situation where they can do sufficient damage to someone in plate armor to set up a follow up kill chance once they are revealed or otherwise create a risk/reward mechanism for stealth players to bridge the gap I. E. Set up traps.
     
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  8. Gia2

    Gia2 Bug Hunter

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    Agree. Entire sub tree lacks. SAP skill says stun but it mezzes, only 1 stealth opening (back, not frontal), no snares or bleeding.
    No reason to go subterfuge spec at all
     
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  9. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

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    New stealth rule, auto attack will never work on a stealthed player/creature. There was logic in there to limit its distance based on stealth value but due to its always on nature, it still makes it trivial to destealth someone. Active skills used in that range will still work.

    Cleaning up target code and trying not to break stuff. Some weirdness with target caching + reticle vs non-reticle. Current plan is active skills can hit stealthed at reduced range BUT stealth reduces the cone angle so you have to have them close to center of screen and close.

    https://twitter.com/catnipgames/status/1363830808780406785
    https://twitter.com/catnipgames/status/1363837091973636100
     
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  10. Virsago2099

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    Makes me wonder how dodges will come into play. Can you stack high enough dodge to avoid being revealed by spam attacks?
     
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  11. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

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  12. FBohler

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    Those stealth threads by Catnip are really well hidden, aren't they? :D

    I personally don't like stealth mixed with PvP, but I think most people like it, so what can I do.

    On the other hand, I think that stealth PvE is just worthless in its current state. It should be one of the most rewarding playstyles.

    Think about how Tactics Spec is a HUGE thing for both PvE and PvP while Subterfuge Spec has no point using at all.
     
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  13. Gia2

    Gia2 Bug Hunter

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    I would add :
    - Positional styles, both stealthed and unstealthed:
    ---Eviscerate - Attack from behind - No stealth requirement - Snare 10% target for x seconds
    ---Dragonfly - Stun on Dodge opening - no stealth requirement - Character stuns the opponent for x sec
    ---Perforating Artieries - Frontal Attack - Stealth Requirement - 100% crit modifier on the attack, stealth and frontal position requirement, otherwise low dmg while unstealthing the assassin.
    ---Creeping Death - Followup of Perforating Arteries - Medium length stun
    ---Rib Separation - Followup Of Creeping Death - dmg modifier on this last one
    this is just straight from daoc
    - Climb Walls passive ability with specialization,
    - Vanish out of combat and clear the effects over time on character at a very long timeout like 5 or 10 mins,
    - Nearsight as % range distance debuff caster and ranged range of shooting arrows and spells,
    - Confusion for pets to make them attack the owner for a period of times...
    and so on :)
    i remember got years and years of fun with Frontal (perforating Artery.. PAs for friends) and side and back kind of opening moves, while stealthed, in Dark Age of Camelot... cold sweating every engage
    3 moves combo with about to none margin of error against heavy tanks and hybrids

    subterfuge should stand as tactic, as a Strategy tree which bumps melees and not only to a sneaky gameplay imho. PLENTY of margin there
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  14. Stabbath

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    If stealth actually has some use in this game, I will come back. I never really pvped in sota, I heard from Synthetic 9 that it has some use in pvp, but u have to spend A LOT of xp on it. I never found use for it in pve. And if I have to spend 1001000 xp on stealth and none on anything else. Wee. fun. Yes, I threw out a number. remove it from game, or make it worth investing in.

    saw Necro chime in above. As usual, I agree with him.
     
  15. Net

    Net Avatar

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    I would like my pet to get aggro instead of me when I am stealthed, and not to be revealed by every skeleton pretending to be dead...

    Oh and it would be nice if I could go to stealth and lose the light rather than having to dismiss the light before going to stealth, but whatever, i got used to it now.