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Why the extreme requirement for acquiring Summon Phoenix skill?

Discussion in 'Release 49 Feedback Forum' started by SpaceNinjaPirate, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. SpaceNinjaPirate

    SpaceNinjaPirate Avatar

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    I know this has probably existed for time immemorial, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that having to kill Riei Firefeather just to acquire the Summon Phoenix skill is a bit extreme.

    Consider that every other magic summoning skill either has no quest requirement, or has a quest that can be done solo. Why must an individual working on their individual skills now have to find a party of seasoned adventurers to take on a boss monster that not only has over 9000HP and hits like a truck, but that also has to be killed twice to make sure he's dead just to get that skill? I can only assume at this point that a summoned phoenix is on the same level as a summoned lich or fire elemental, and isn't some all powerful creature that can lay waste to all enemies that stand before you, so why the overkill with the quest requirement? The risk simply does not fit the reward.

    Wouldn't you think it would be more logical and consistent to add another "boss" that is more on the scale of the other summoning skill quest bosses so that individuals who are working on skill development can simply acquire the skill individually like all other summoning skills?
     
  2. Trihugger

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    Insult to injury... the phoenix summon isn't any better than any of the others either lol...
     
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  3. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    It's true. At the moment there is really no good reason to do it for the reward!

    And it's the only one, you can't do by your own (may be with Adv.lvl 120? ;))

    Beside this, there are actual 3 Elementals having also quests to do, before you get the Elemntal Skill:
    Fire (Beginning of Nightshade pass, heading right ...)
    Death (Down in the Etceter Mines, the "Unseen" ...)
    For me, the Death-Quest was more difficult (Adv.lvl 90)
    I did it this month (Pole and Cloth user!, I assume with Bow/Sword and Chain/Plate it is more easier)

    It was said, there will be a quest for each Elemental Skill to be done first.
    I hope, this will be inside before launch :)
    And I also hope, the more difficult Quests will reward a more powerful Elemental.
    For the Phoenix it should be ...
    If not, the enemy we have to defend to solve the quest really should not be so hard ...
     
  4. Nelzie

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    I really liked it for a while, I mean... it was my first Summon... but, then I discovered Water Elementals!

    I don't even want to level up the "allegedly" better Ice Elemental. (If that boy healed too... I'd use him probably exclusively, but my tests just showed that I would die... often. LOL.)
     
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  5. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    I even don't know, if Ice elemental is better. I use it. It is not healing - so, I don't know, how much better it is ;)
     
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  6. Nelzie

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    Yeah, I'd have to go with trying to use the Ice Elemental as a Tank, switch over to near exclusively healing myself while kiting all over and rooting mobs when I can. Kiting sucks though, because even when I'm a decent distance from a MOB, they have the LARGEST attack radius, while I need to essentially be clipping their model to melee them effectively. My toon can be the equivalent of 8 to 15 feet away from a Wolf or a Thug and they are melee damaging me.
     
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  7. Numa

    Numa Avatar

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    I find the ice elemental a bit tankier but not necessarily better than the water elemental. More suitable for enclosed spaces but much less utility.
     
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  8. Elwyn

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    I did it right before they gave mobs a lot of elemental resistance. Those two liches were really derpy for a while. And I don't think I ever could kill Xavara, since I'm mostly a fire mage type.

    Here's a big hint to defeating them all:
    It's a multi-player game! Get other people to help you!
     
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  9. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Well, I think at a time of a lot experience through the game, it is possible - and may be should for some enemies :)

    I did Xavara with the friendly help of the kind Luca Xante at a time I wasn't ready to do it alone.
    The reason I did it so early was just simple: I was searching for more quests :)
    Starting now with release, it is another feeling to start!

    [Beside this: may be it's a personal feeling, I think, the fire elemental is one of the strongest.
    I also have the feeling with fire skills, compared with others - may be wrong!
    Someone can tell something about?]

    Reaching Adv.lvl. 89 AND with help of my Elemental ICY, I defeated Xavara "alone" :)
    It was just interesting to find out (same with a troll!), how strong the Avatar is now.
    And so I found out - in my case with my used skills - the death elemental mission was harder as the fire elemental mission.
    And the phoenix mission is beyond of that :)

    I agree, we don't must do all by our own. I think it's a question of game design, too:
    What kind of elemental should be possible to use after skill tree lvl X?

    Only in death tree and water tree exists a second elemental (Lich and Ice).
    I think, it would be great to have two types of Elementals in each skill tree. And may be (like in death tree!) grey skills making the elemental stronger over time ;)
    May be one Elemenatal, we can use after lvl up the needed skills to 40 as it is now.
    And may be the second only with lvl up elemental one by 60? AND help of others, because the Elemental will be more powerful ...
    And perhaps the second is more complex to use - like daemon in chaos! - and we have need of more skills, 1.: to control it 2.: make it more stronger as Elemental 1.

    For now - and that's the reason for this thread - it makes no sense to have to fulfill a very hard quest to receive the (phoenix) elemental in comparison to the other elementals.
    So I still hope, there will be, what was said, a quest for every elemental :)
    And for more powerful elementals it's okay to have a more powerful enemy, even I can't do it by myself!

    I think, an elemental is very important for people, who want to play pure mages and also an alternative for people who want to explore the more difficult places of novia.
    Don't forget to have a friend by traveling through PvP zones ;)
    @DarkStarr, @Chris, any information for fans of Elementals? :)

    May be a very good question for next telethon :)
     
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  10. Numa

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    I would also love to see 2 Elementals in every tree. Would recommend that the one in a lower tier in their tree be obtainable without having to do a very difficult quest. So, for example, the water elemental could be achievable by a simpler search&fetch quest but the Ice Elemental would require a difficult combat oriented one.
     
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  11. Trihugger

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    I'd just like to see the pets be worth using... None of them are worth the focus hit you take for having it out.
     
  12. Elwyn

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    Phoenix makes a good aggro alarm when you're busy harvesting. Also has a chance (depending on where it happens to be sitting) of taking the aggro first.
     
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  13. SpaceNinjaPirate

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    I think, as someone who primarily solos everything, that so far the water elemental has been indispensable and very much worth the hit to focus. I can't count the number of times it has healed me through tough situations.
     
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  14. Numa

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    Agreed :)

    It also helps that nothing beats the Water tree in terms of utility. Offense, defense and healing all in all in one tree.
     
  15. Trihugger

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    For me, the focus hit slows me down entirely too much. I found ways to heal myself and basically never need to stop to chill or regroup (just rebuff). Coming also entirely from a solo perspective as I haven't found a place where grouping earns me more experience than what I'd get on my own. I do play a melee though so my focus pool is significantly smaller than someone playing a more magically inclined setup.

    I am entirely with you guys though that the water elemental (and to an extent the wisp) are the two summons that actually can be useful. The others need some serious work to be brought up to a "could be useful" level.
     
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  16. kaeshiva

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    Usefulness or not, having a quest to unlock a skill that is all but impossible to solo seems a bit ....annoying.
    Same goes for the recent change to the MAIN STORYLINE quest requiring a group now to reforge the lens Hilt. That was a whammy of a surprise for the guildmate I was helping through the quest, and basically the guy had to wait until a group of folks could be assembled to go help, when he was just 1 step away from finishing the quests he'd been runnin around doing for days. Really discouraging change. I'm not against 'epic' quests requiring group content, but skill unlocks and main storyline seems a bit...much. This was one of the worst things in many other games where you're basically crippled until you can round up people to help you. I know its a multi-player game, but "forced grouping" isn't really a good idea. At least the skill unlock (Summon Phoenix) is pretty useless so not being able to do it isn't a big deal.
     
  17. Quenton

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    I did this one not long ago and I had to scour the world trying to find anyone who could best a phoenix. I normally play solo, so this was no easy task.

    Let's forget about the fact that the phoenix summon itself is not actually very good for a minute. Having a quest to get a final spell in a tree isn't actually a bad idea. But just having to kill a super powered boss enemy to get that spell/ability is not the right way to go about it.

    After the tedium of having to find someone who could kill a phoenix, I got no sense of "finally! that was worth the effort to achieve my goal". I felt like I could finally end this torture of a task. It was not fun.

    If there was some sort of quest that made me have to go somewhere to craft a feather and enchant it or something and then learn some nugget of knowledge to bring back to the master, that would have been cool and thematic.
     
  18. SpaceNinjaPirate

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    I remember doing a couple of quests from another MMO (not sure which one as I've played many), both of which have concepts that would be right at home replacing the "kill Riei Firefeather" requirement.

    The first one required you, the individual, to visit the lair of a very large, tough, elite boss monster, but you weren't going there to kill him... you were going there to steal something from him. So once there, you had to avoid/dodge/survive long enough to collect the item and get out before that boss killed you.

    The second quest required something similar except you were given some magic item and told you had to "collect the essense" (or some such thing) of this very large, tough, elite boss monster. This item, when used, would create a magical shield that would absorb something like 90% of the power of the attacks from this monster, and would also, in turn, charge itself with the essence from these attacks. So, as an individual, if you used the item correctly, you were most likely not going to die, except that this shield would only absorb so much or lasted for a brief time before it dissipated.

    Either way, an individual would have more of a surviving chance while still having to face at least some danger in the quest... and Riei Firefeather still can be involved.
     
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