Response to PvP & Death Deep Dive

Two other threads also containing ideas regarding body parts/trophies/crafting/uses/etc.:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/ear-collecting.8508/

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ing-corpse-parts-for-regs-and-knowledge.8332/

Good stuff!

 

Im all for body parts looting and crafting. Really what is the big problem? Its just a game it in no way affects your character or you all it does is say someone defeated you and since its consensual at least gve them that morsel since pvpers havent gotten anything theyve asked for. Is it a moral dilemma? If so then real world mirals obviously dont matter in a game. If its aot mirals in game then well with no evil there is no good. Without people carving up ur corpse there is nobody able to hunt them down for it. I really dont understand the problem

I take it im the only non darwinist here but as you are you should beleive that man is an animal so cutting upxa man is no different than a deer. People in real life do far far worse on a regular basis on what we might consider depraved others like the people the cut up their loved ones and feed them to vultures consider it a religious right. So in a way its being naive and immoral to not do it unless you wish to deprive some of their religious freedoms

 

Maybe i

maybe it could just be "mutilated body part" and "body part" and "secerely mutilated bidy part" instead of being specific it could just be a generic body part so feasibly it could work if u habe multiples cause its not specific and the. There could be rare drops that are specific and there would be a very small number of them and smaller chance of it dropping

 

Mondain's Skull

There is precedent

 

What the deep dive nailed for me is that, given the current thinking of the dev team, I doubt I will ever flag myself for PvP of any kind, unless there is some kind of limited PvP mode where mutilation and looting are turned off. And no, ransom doesn't solve it for me.

 

You do realize that you arent actually being mutilated? Your polygonal representation is having its vertices split apart from its host object to become its own object. Truly gruesome and terrifying. Likely you wouldnt have pvped anyway if this is the deal breaker

 

What if you kill the people that baked pies from your own body (your old body....) and then ate the pies ?

What happens then ? do you get a boost ?

 

@mmjarec

If you're attaching a moral argument to the subject then all I can say is you can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. "Other people do it" has no bearing on right or wrong and isn't a justification.

It always gets me a bit whenever someone says "it's just a game".. yes.. and no. It's never "just a game" when we're talking about online play. This is how players choose to spend their own personal free time. Many of them using this time to unwind from their daily stresses and forget their problems for a little while from the comfort of their home. You are interacting with these people live and everyone is very different. Irrational as it can be it can become a very personal thing. Not everyone has the emotional detachment they should have and there are times for say.. an RPG when you don't always want players to have that detachment.

That character getting cut up isn't you personally but it is (and indeed RG is promoting the idea through game lore) a representation of you.

The "just a game" justification really ignores the fact that you're interacting with real people. Many of whom don't share the same ideas that you do. Also among different play styles there are those very emotionally invested in their characters and what happens to them. You may not care if your character gets mutilated and your remained put on public display but recognize that many people do care. In extreme cases it can lead to a sense of being violated. You're dead and helpless yet that isn't enough that someone has to carve you up as well?

Incentive to PvP for some, discouragement for others and for the later body parts being named is just insult to injury (and doesn't make sense anyway) that goes a step beyond what PvP needs to be.

On a different note and all that being said.. I actually like the idea of harvesting blood and blood being perhaps a spell reagent for necros. Harvesting blood wouldn't necessarily have the same virtue hit if there were a positive use for it. Technically you don't even need to kill someone to do it if they wanted to go that route.

 

Its not "other people do it". Its other people do it and think its divinely right. So what is morally right to you or reprehensible is in the eye of the beholder

You say wrong. I say right. You arent ineracting with real people. You are interacting with polygons that used to represent a real person before it became a lifeless corpse. A lifeless corpse in a video game is amoral because its pixels that happen to look like a corpse. Nothing else. You are attatching attributes to something that had none other than in your own brain.

You might find religious cermonies where people mutilate others to be immoral. Guess what. They consider it highly virtuous. Who are you to say its wrong because to them you are wrong.

You dont need to kill someone? You realise this is an adult game right? If you are adverse to killing pixels there are less gruesome games in the PG section

 

Yep that always makes my BS detector go off

 

What? Telling the truth and stating facts? I really hope you never have to see anyone playing medal of honor or GTA.

Seriously though. The game has a rating. If you are against what it relresents dont play it. Peope hunt and kill each other all the time. Drink blood. Make potions out body parts. So if a game mimics reality with pixels whats the problem since its not really happening. Break it down to its constituent parts. Pixels moving onscreen cannot be offensive and if rhey are then lego versions arw available. Dont ruin what could be a cool and unique gameplay element.

You are against pixel slaughter. I am against being squeamish for no reason. I e had to dismber and mutilate animals to survive so how is doing it in a game so wrong liek i said. You evil is another mans holy

 

after watching the deep dive, i decided that as long as the body part trophy thing is on the table i will not PVP.

I have serious moral objections of having player/human trophies displayed by other players. especially if the name is displayed... it sends a wrong msg to me... i'm a very liberal person but thats a line i wont cross ever... and i sincerely hope the dev team reconsiders that. i'm even planning to reconsider my next pledge upgrade to be honest...

Body parts as trophies it rubs me the wrong way... hard...

 

You do realize that we are talking about PvP here right? Not PvE. You ARE interacting with real players that are sitting somewhere out in the real world controlling that character you just killed and are about to carve up. This is multiplayer we're talking about.. not single player.

Right and wrong is NOT in the eye of the beholder. We can debate that until we're blue in the face but within the context of SotA.. the game has its own system of virtue and that is what we should be focusing on and in this case.. there is a right and wrong. The game says so. It's dictated by the virtues. In this context it is not up to the individual to define right and wrong for themselves. Thus there should be consequences to stuff like carving people up.

Also this has absolutely nothing to do with survival. You cannot compare killing animals to survive and carving up human corpses for sport. There is no comparison to be made there. Not to mention that necessary detachment works against this argument. If the player were really dead they wouldn't care would they? The player is still alive and has to sit there while you carve up their pixels. Survival is not on the line here by any stretch of the imagination. Victory is not defined by what you can do to the corpse after the fact.

So far no one in this thread has said (unless I missed it) body part trophies is a deal breaker. I'm am personally saying it makes no sense for them to be labeled with the character's name and that people's sensibilities should be acknowledged.

 

(ok I obviously missed Dhimni's post as I was typing mine at the time)

 

There will always be those "individuals" who think they have a right to do anything because no one else has the right to say no. Tiring but true.


So, back to my soul idea, or essence...it could require a crystal to be held by the player that fills with energy of the deceased. When you look at the info it will display who you have won it from. If you defeat that person who has a part of you in his crystal you recieve your essence back, but do not take any of the defeated.

Just an idea.

 

no worries i'm glad im not the only one that finds it a deal breaker

 

There are a lot of people who find it distasteful but there's many difference perspectives at play. If I may make some broad generalizations here.. just my observations. Maybe I'm way off base?

The non-RPing PvPer.. being the group I would suspect has the least issue with this.. normally has no emotional attachment to a character. There's no need for it. PvP is more like a competitive sport in a sense and trophies are a prize to show off their victories. There's no care for immersion and the other guy if they're there should be the same as them. They're playing the same game and they're there to compete. Crush the enemy before you.

I have no problem with this . Where I do have a problem where someone wants to impose this on others and expect everyone else should have the same standards. Of course that goes both ways. An RPer shouldn't try to impose RP on the non-RPer.

What everyone should accept is that Portalarium is trying to make a game that supports more than one style of play and they want to encourage some cross over. They're not trying to make extreme hardcore gorey PvP.

Also my earlier comment about not needing to kill to harvest blood was an elusion to the fact that we do it all the time.. assuming the donor is voluntary. I was merely suggesting a possibility that there may be a case when a player willingly lets their blood be harvested without being killed. Anyway.. moving on.

The RPer.. (PvPer or not) typically has a higher emotional investment in their character. They care what happens to it before they put in time to develop that character's life and story. They may not want that character to be carved up and turned into a bean bag chair.

One man's evil may perceptually be another one man's holy.. but you have to remember that you're playing with that other man. You may not see them in person but you're interacting with them through the game. So that argument doesn't fly as a justification. It's basically saying "I don't give a ____ about what you think or feel. I don't see you in person. You're nothing but pixels to me so why should I care? It's no big deal to me."

I keep remembering RG's story about the "thief" in UO who kept targeting the same newbie over and over. The "thief" was "hey you made a game that lets me do this" while at the same time it was ruining the experience of the newbie who was ready to give up on the game. That "thief" couldn't care less about the other player's experience. They were just pixels to him.

 

You are way off base. I roleplay and mostly PvE and get very attached to some characters. I just don't agree with you at all. My point is that it IS that bad and THAT offensive but I think that it should be allowed. With all of this deep meaningful stuff that we're promised in roleplay, story, combat, crafting etc. it should be there and dealt with accordingly. It should not just matter that you took someone's body parts as a trophy but also what you do with those parts.

If you eat them (sorry DarkStarr) it should matter in some way. If you sacrifice them to some deity it should matter. If you destroy them in front of the player you just killed, it should matter. If you find a way to make gear out of them, it certainly should matter mechanically in the game.

Depending on the feeling of the game, I'll still take my husband's head.

 

Explain way off base. How so? Were you referring to my generalizations or something else. It wasn't clear. Cause nothing you just said contradicts what I said that I can see.

 

while i might accept the use of body parts ingame, i still have serious problems with the displaying of body parts as trophies...