Valor & Cowardice - Feedback Request

Hello all,

I'm working on a submission and was trying to make it darker/more depressed. I think I'm starting to get there but was hoping that I could get some feedback on my progress (or lack thereof) and maybe some suggestions for how to move forward. I'm currently using mostly cheap samples right now but, if I feel confident that the piece is starting to get good enough, I'm ready to buy some better sounds and get to work. Also, this is fully unmixed - just raw, cheap samples.

The top track is the version I'm currently working on. The lower track in the play list was the original that I'm trying to darken up.

Thanks for listening.

 

My comments come with the following disclaimer: I have nearly no formal musical training. I do everything by feel and by ear. I seem to end up with compositions that sound good, but it's definitely not an indicator that I'm an expert. All I can tell you is how I "feel" about what I hear. Hopefully it's helpful for you.

Here are my feelings on "Valor & Cowardice Take 2"

The very very low cello (I think it's a cello?) that starts at 0:40 sounds out of place and perhaps a little discordant. The strings that start at 1:00 are nice. If you kept the low staccato strings going past :40 and start the violin-sounding strings from 1:00 at :40, and drop the very low strings that start at :40 I think you'd be in much better shape. I'm not a professional by any means, but I've found that I usually am making a mistake when I try to introduce a dark feel to a song by using very low/deep tones prominently.

I like the idea of the cycling piano that starts at 2:00 but I my feeling is that I want more of a "resolution" to happen in the seconds before the rest of the instruments come in, and at that point I would make the cycling piano stop playing (or at least stop cycling) rather than continuing like it does currently.

From 2:43 forward until the end is perfect. It's awesome. Recapture that sort of feel throughout the whole song. The melody feels both valorous and cowardly at the same time. The strings are great, and the harp is an excellent counterpoint, and the heartbeat-like drum is perfect.

 

Kailef,

Thanks so much - this is excellent feedback. I had issues in a lot of the same places that you mentioned and have been working on this tune since early this morning and came up with a version that addressed a lot of those moments but in different ways. I'm going to go back and do another pass with your suggestions in mind and will hopefully come up with some sort of Franken-Song. In the version I'm about to post I just did away with the staccato cello early on because I agree that it something wasn't vibing with it coming in and dropping out. I basically re-worked the entire beginning.

I also re-worked the ending quite a bit because I wasn't happy with the way the looping piano part came in and dropped out like you mentioned.

The beginning very low notes are 1 cello playing the main melody and then an extremely low double bass playing the discord notes. I'm going to try to massage those a bit differently so they're not so dissonant but I think also cleaning up the low end with some eq will help them not rub so much.

If you have a moment to listen to the version I put together this morning and let me know if you think I did more damage than good to the ending, that would be much appreciated. I kept various different versions of the tune saved so I can get the ending back to where it was.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the comments.

 

You're welcome! I just advise taking everything I say with a grain of salt because there are people here with far more skill than I at this sort of thing.

In any case, I have come to the determination that I dislike the sweeping lows of that cello. If I were you, I would put the staccato cello back at the beginning, and instead of having it drop out, keep it playing for longer, replacing the low cello throughout the entire song that plays the low main melody. I really hate that cello. Holt Ironfell taught me that sometimes the best thing to do is just cut something. You can probably keep the double bass, at least until we can hear what the reworked version sounds like with it there.

The cycling / looping piano being missing from the two minute mark is makes the solo percussion there seem kind of empty. I'd put some sort of bridge-like melody in there, something that resolves at the end just before the rest of the instruments come back. Besides that, I still like the the ending a lot, it sounds good.

 

Thanks again! I'm working on this right now. Just for clarification, do you hate the sound of the cello (lowness/tone/etc.) or do you hate the actual melody/part? I've been spending a lot of my time since re-working the original messing around with tempos, octaves, and instrument sounds.

You the man Kailef!

 

The melody itself isn't a problem, I don't think. It's that I don't like hearing the cello playing the main melody line along with the keys. Even if it wasn't playing the exact same melody, it doesn't "feel" right to me. The instrument doesn't feel like it belongs. I'm having difficulty verbalizing what I mean - Here's where my lack of actual musical training becomes a challenge. I'm sure there are technical ways to describe what I mean, but I don't know what they are. *grin*

 

I think I'm picking up what you're putting down. I just took out the notes on the cello and the double bass that were clashing and I think that was probably what was throwing you. All the same, I'm still playing around the octaves and voicings and think I am starting to get very close.

 

The following is about "Valor & Cowardice Take 3" song.

At the beginning, I feel a "warped" characteristic in the tonality of the song which is not a bad thing at all. I hear a lot of things happening from your tonality, ostinatos, the textures, and chord "colors" you chose to use. But as the middle of song approaches, it got a bit dramatic with a march type rhythm which is good. But particularly when the snare & bass drum pattern start, I thought those two instruments seemed to work against what you were doing. I can't put my finger exactly on it, but I think it was the rhythmic pattern you chose for those two instruments. And at the end of your piece, when the percussion stopped, the "warped" characteristic that you had started with in the beginning of the song did not have a strong presence. My ear kinda wanted to hear that again. Maybe not exactly the same but something familiar as the beginning of the song.

Overall i think you have good things going for you with this song. I like it. Its interesting to my ear. The form of the song is easy to follow just not sure on those few things. I don't claim to be an expert, and certainly I could totally be wrong with my assessment. I am just sharing my opinion and perspective in the hopes of being helpful. Hope this helped.

 

Thanks for the comments Quetzalcoatl! I have one last shot tonight to try to get this tune good enough so I'm hoping to find the time after to work to get some of the feedback I've received into the tune.

Stupid work is always getting in the way of things that I actually want to do.

 

Life seems to always interfere with progress sometimes. I feel your pain.

Good luck!