Will or should question marks above heads of NPCs make it into the game?

It wasn't really a problem in R7. The mining and stuff definitely regressed this last release, I'm not sure why. I could not for the life of me get garnets out of the Graff Gem mines and I had no problems harvesting in R7 there.

I agree about multiple stacked bodies as the biggest case for highlighting but again, I don't think a really garish yellow highlight that shows the worst of the graphics engine is the only way we can achieve highlight.

 

I think that there are definitely more elegant methods to "highlight" objects, for example with a subtle glow to them. But such things should always be optional.
I did not have problems interacting with objects and if I did I tried again and maybe again. Also the mouse pointer was glowing when moving over an object that could be interacted with. I can understand that this is ineffective for some MMORPG players as in an MMO playing in an effective way is crucial. Each click needs to be effective to save as much time as possible to be as fast as possible in the game. Therefore a highlighting system seems to be needed to play in the most effective way.
But from a single player perspective or from the perspective of those who don't care about playing in the most effective way, this highlighting is just annoying.
Also the highlighting system we have now is a system that does not cover those elements that are hard to interact with only but every object which is really strange.

The best solution would be to make this highlighting optional.

 

Frame around interactive objects: NO. Or maybe YES!
They disturb the beautiful, realistic looking world in the way they are! In ESO you could easily customize them. (thickness and amount of blur)
But I would love it, if there is another, more elegant way then this stupid immersion killers. Maybe with the highlighted cursor only (which should only get highlighted when you are near enough to interact with)

Highlighted mouse cursor over interactive objects: YES!
This, I think, is a must have!

Questmarkers overs NPCs head: NO!
This kills exploration, cause people will try to progress faster and only talk to NPCs with some kind of marker over their head. There are other games out there if you want it the easy way.

 

This thread has strayed a bit from the original question, but both topics are valid.
Firstly, the questionmarks:
NO WAY, EVER!!! I'm an old-school Ultima player; we could argue all day about whether Shroud is the spiritual successor of Ultima or Ultima Online (or both); the fact is that games out of this stable have always been thus. You have to think. And use your brain. You do not get "given" instructions to "go to this point and get this item". You have to talk to everyone in town to learn who they are, and what their story is. This is realism, immersion, and challenging. It's like real life - and this is what RG and co are trying to create. I do NOT want that to change, and I don't believe it will.
Secondly, the outlining: A good attempt to make things clearer - yes, the "ring" below someone when you clicked on them was sometimes difficult to see; I think it may have gone a bit far though. Now people/things are surrounded by a bright fluoro glow (Whoa, who turned on the lights???) I would support something a bit more sublte, or as suggested making it optional. Personally I found it useful; I'd just like it toned down a little.

 

well,
-floaties
-health bars
-keywords
-maps are coming
-random card combat (with combos)
-journal
-highlighted everything
-watered down pvp
-no real looting in pvp

so yes, exclamation marks coming in R10 lol

 

I like the highlight on combat but not on objects. Unlocked Doors could auto open/ close.
Problem, mimic looks like a chest so it should only get highlighted after engaged.

And No, but something more subtle.

 

Yes. The more things like this, the better. Let people turn it off if they wish.

 

NO!! to the question marks. Come on people do you really want to be considered as 5 year old brats?
And also concerning PVP I quited R8 when I saw all those annoying particles flying around my avatar pls stop it, I cant imagine PVP with the screen full of particles. In UO when you saw the Words "In vas Por" over someones head you really knew you had to run away. But with all those different spells and particles around distracting your eyes, you will see nothing , particles is ok in 1V1 but when you have more people involved is terrible and of course they cause "HUGE LAAG".

 

I don't think that the highlighting is really necessary and we really don't need it. I was surprised to see it in the last release on the doors. As for the question marks/exclamation marks, definitely no. In fact, Richard mentioned during the Kickstarter campaign that he didn't like them and won't put them in. Lets hope he doesn't.

 

What question marks do above heads is take away the importance of immersion into the game. Why bother talking to any of the npc's...just go straight to the question mark, do quest, get reward....rinse repeat.

This, to me, goes against what they are trying to achieve here. Look at ultima 7, there were no quest markers and you had to talk to the NPC's to find out things. You had to think.

I am firmly against the quest markers as it really makes the game a seek and hunt game.

 

I would argue that it is just more of a seek and hunt game right now. Go talk to everyone with highlighted text or spam "job/help/trade" at characters. I don't see much of a difference. Our conversation system is still not robust enough for it not to feel like a waste of time.

Every release I tell Bentham "I thought Lum promised to make you less derp. I still think you're going to get us all killed." That guy is sick and if the people of OwlsHead don't run him out of town, it is going to be a giant charcoal mark on the ground someday.

 

I don't see a problem with highlighting or question marks and such, as long as you can turn em off. Let every1 play the way he/she wants to play

 

If people have that attitude, it's still a seek and hunt game without markers. The difference is that omitting markers just makes the "hunt" part more tedious and potentially frustrating. Until the day true AI is invented and implemented, talking to an NPC will never reach the dynamic of talking to a real person. That by itself is immersion breaking. The way you get around that is by treating the game experience like a book or story, by reading and soaking in the pre-written story, if you care to do. If the story is compelling and your disbelief is suspended, boom, immersion.

There is no better example of this than WoW. WoW features the most robust mapping and marking system for quests you're likely to find anywhere, especially if you factor in third party addons like Carbonite and QuestHelper. You can elect to plow through quests on your mission to max level to whatever extent your heart desires. But you don't have to do. In fact, the questing experience offered by WoW is far richer than most people realize. The stories are well planned and well executed, to the best extent that such a tired franchise can do. For those who choose to go slow and read, the experience can be as immersive (if cartoony graphics are your thing) as you please. Quest markers don't detract from this if roleplaying and storytelling are what you want out of the game.

Of course, there is a problem of quest markers worth noting, which is that it increases the divide between power gamers and role players in terms of PvE performance. That's appreciable. But it only takes a short time for power gamers who want to get to max level fast to map out quest hubs and instructions on a third party community site. While quests markers might tell you which NPCs offer quests, they don't always tell you what quests are worth doing, and they sure as heck don't tell you what NPCs are worth talking to. Because of this, the difference made by quest markers to the gaming experience is really pretty trivial in terms of competitive advantage if you're into that, and if you're not into that, a little self control can go a long way toward engaging you just the same as you would be engaged by having to talk to every single person in town.

If it's just the thought of people having yellow exclamation points above their heads that turns you off, there could easily be a way to, well, turn it off. Like a light switch. Just go whap--now really what's so hard about that?

 

I will tell you exactly what's wrong with that!

RG said he is making a game that is exactly what I want, and if I want something that is typically resolved over a table top with a simple, direct to DM statement or question, why should I have that in game?

wait. I meant, if it is the game made exactly for me, why should I be able to toggle an option on or off?

wait, that ain't right either.

I mean, if I want to drag drop every single item from my inventory to my player card to equip, that is bs, I should have have to type out everything by name to simulate me putting each piece on in real life.

hmm. ... perhaps computers allow me to be more efficient with my time, so I can focus on what I, me, the self, likes, versus having no option at all while still maintaining other people's choices about their level of interaction.

Have cake and eat it too? What a novel concept.

 

The NPC's that you haven't talked to will not show a name over their heads. So if you want to know if you ever talked to a person you should ask them for their name. Then they will change from "Merchant" to "Tom"

 

I do never ever use the display of names.

 

That's fine for you, but somebody is asking for question marks over an NPC's head. The person who is asking for question marks has a the ability to see if they talked to them if they know the person's name. Clicking the N key will not harm anybody.

You are fine the way you are.

 

Regrettably, there is a sizable population of gamers that simply can't be bothered to talk to every single NPC in their effort to find their employer's lost needle in a proverbial haystack. If Port fails to include this functionality (even if it's optional, and even if it's off by default), they will alienate that group. What exactly is wrong with a toggleable option?

 

It is silly, and goes against what we all pledged for in the beginning. We wanted a game that is different. SotA is doing something different. R8 seems to be very successful. I think this game is going to be successful.

If a person really wants to have arrows telling them where to go, there will be wikis for all that. Why should all games be made the same? Toggle between Firefox and SotA. I don't want my pledge money to go to adding another complex feature that takes more of the devs time and money when it was something specifically mentioned as a feature to not be found in this game.

Have you considered how complex that is. Is it something they could add, yes. Yet they would then have to code it into the game, and now they not only have a dialoge system, but they need to make sure question marks and exclaimiation points go over the heads of people who haven't been fully mined of all the things they can say.

*big problem is the fact they will be programming in a lot of hidden text for some NPCs as easter eggs. I may be wrong, but this whole concept sounds like a major waste of our pledge resources.

 

The server performs quest tracking anyway. How do you think an NPC knows if he or she has a quest for you, is ready to give you your reward for a job well done, or should thank you for having helped? Tagging that character with a visual marker can't be that hard since quest progress checks must already be in place.

Now about this feature being silly and not something you pledged for in the beginning, well, frankly I don't give two tinkling toodles what you pledged for. The fact remains that this feature is a meaningful benefit that is commonly found in games of this genre to facilitate more accessible gameplay for people who can't or don't want to "waste" playtime by talking to NPCs they don't have to talk to. I'm sorry if that offends your roleplayer sensibilities. It does mine, too. The difference is I have no interest in pushing my own playstyle preferences on others.

Tell me again what's wrong with a toggleable option.