Bro, do you even Role Play???

But how exactly can you have a game without open pvp and full loot and not call it a themepark game? What is it then?
It's no longer a niche game because it caters to the sickly need of the average joe to look at dying dragon animations without anybody interrupting him.
That's what a theme park game is.

On the other end of the spectrum is a "simulation"(not literally) of a living fantasy world, like Old UO was.

 

A great PvP system will always attract more players into a game. And yes, Port will make more money. But the PvP is only in restricted area's because of the other people that don't like PvP. Let's face it, PvP is mostly a guy thing. It's in our blood to kill and blow things up. I am all for the full looting thing. Just keep it inside the PvP zones is all I'm saying, only for the sake of the other players that can't handle this type of play style. Everyone wins!

 

Everyone says UO went south when they introduced Trammel. I saw it as them not loosing customers. If I felt like PvP'ing, I geared up and went to Felucca.

 

Ive said this a million time, still cant figure out what you guys talkin about.
Money? Marketing?
Why do you care so much about Portalarium's money?
Wanna hear something about marketing? How's that: no matter how casual SotA goes, it will never even remotely reach the success of WoW.

And I firmly believe that the amount of players SotA is aiming for can be reached by catering to the PvP-Full-Loot-Crowd, too.

You guys really think all the housewives, the millions of 12-year-old kids, and all the other folks from WoW will come to play SotA cause it has trammel and a donation store? They will NEVER EVEN hear about a game called SotA.
SotA is a niche game and everything about it screams that.
-It's a successor to the old Ultima games. All those tens of millions of people, who play WoW, have NEVER heard of the ultimas and they never will.
-It doesnt even have a whole virtual world, it's just instances. Nobody buys that in 2014. We had whole maps without loading between parts of the map in 2001. Or earlier.
-It doesn't have top-tier graphics to make the kids go "wooow".

The game is nowhere near a state in which it could market itself to the casual WoW crowd and get ten millions of subscribers.

So I really don't believe there's no need to make the game cater to casuals heavily. It might bring a few thousand casual players, but that's about it.

 

It may not be the end objective for you. The devs must take all angles into account. They have a working plan that covers many aspects and answers many issues they are concerned about. Full loot directly works against some of those.

This all depends on the extra mechanics then would need to add for PvP full loot.

Cost mitigating gear tends to be rather lack luster for crafters. If there is a smelting mechanic how profitable is it for the PvP full loot player to salvage vs resell the looted gear. There is a large amount of dynamics going on in crafting. So lets look at some painful design issues.

Leveling, if players are required to "grind" crafting then those grind items get put up for sale without concern for market value.
PvP full looted are subject to the same issue. There is no labor in the crafting process, they skipped it.

Might as well create a separate gear set. PvPfullloot gear that trades hands quickly and PvPCurrentthinking gear that gives crafters a progression of qualites based on rarety of resources.

 

and another thing u guys be missin....
not all of those 10 million (now less) wow players are the hardcorest casuals of all. Many, many of them love to pvp and they kill as many low-lvl characters every day as they can.

 

SotA and UO are sandbox style MMORPG's that requires patients and skillfull planning to survive and prevail, not some mindless level grinding hack and slash like WoW is. So why are you even here TemperAssass? To demote SotA and UO? Are you a WoW spy? I hope Port got your pledge money! Thanks for backing for us and the Dev's!

 

SotA are a story driven game with multiplayer capabilities and not a truly a sandbox game!

 

I'm not even going to argue this! Been playing PC RPG's since I was 10 years old. I know the difference between a Story driven and a Sandbox when I play them! Final Fantasies and Dragon Age are Story driven games. You know... You fight a battle and then watch a movie for 3 minutes, rinse and repeat all the way to the end. So much fun there!

 

Really? Your comprehension skills are lacking bro. Was not his point at all.

Again the argument is circular, same people arguing same things not listening to all the points the pro PvP loot crowd have brought up.

Again it boils down to this: It is optional Multiplayer and you can choose who joins your "adventure". So if you have it only for Non PvP or friends you are never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever going to get ganked and die. So if that is the case, why does it bother you if there is looting?

Pro Loot crowd arguments: * stimulates the economy - items break, items are lost, currency is removed from the system less inflation etc, people buy more stuff from crafters more frequently, creates a real merchant class
*Stops gear being the bench mark of what content you can do (ie endless raids on already cleared content) this doubles as the game having actual content as opposed to a grind to make it last longerso you can gear up for the next raid
*PvP does not equal lesser profits - SOTA has attracted alot of ex UO players looking for that style of play again
*Looting and open PvP creates fueds, Anti Pkers, Pkers, Mercenaries (true good guy bad guy characters to the game)
*Bounties
* Deeper, more meaningful player interactions
*Risk v Reward
* Requires ramifications if you murder/steal/loot
*Want Sandbox and not a themepark. Things cant always go your way.

I know there are heaps more so chuck em in.

 

If PvP is done only by consent, then by definition, it is kept inside the PvP zones, even if the zone spans the entire gaming area, as in Open PvP. PvE players won't see PvP players, ever, unless they choose to join them, so where is the problem?

 

For the things you say to be true, then a great many players would have to be participating in Full Loot PvP. A vast majority would have to be participating, in fact. If insignificant numbers are involved, then the effects would also be insignificant. If a vast majority of players are participating in Full Loot PvP, then the economy will just need to reach a point of equilibrium to accommodate that preferred playing style.

Thank you for your vote of confidence. You've made a very strong argument supporting the implementation of a Full Loot option for SotA PvP.

 

The filter system, at this point, is still unknown. They have given zero evidence that would show they will have open PvP segregation.

RG has, however, stated that he is against segregation. PvP hexes would obviously be unseen by people that do not wish to PvP. Anyone that flags as open PvP may very well be right in the mix with those that are not.

The blessing of the Oracle as a filter? Story wise, does that sound like a blessing or a check in the box. Why segregate them out of the eyes of the rest of the world?

 

How does any of this affect a Full Loot option?

 

It doesn't, it goes right back to my original point, and since you invoked the topic of full loot segregation I used it.

I am not against full loot, remember, I am the one that posted the time based looting suggestion. My point is that looking at everything as a singular element vs the full dynamic greatly alters the impact of design.

You want to sell full loot as "optional" when it is a walk in the opposite direction elements that the devs are specifically trying to address. You are not selling it as something that could be added in a later episode. You are asking for them to tack on something that undermines their efforts to build what they have proposed.

They want people to try what they are attempting. Asking for full loot now does not give the skeptics much reason to try.

 

I am asking for a feature that I think many players would like. A feature that would attract additional players to SotA, yet would no affect the rest of the game very much, if at all, or if if did have a large effect, it would be because a great many SotA players use the feature.

Why would Portalarium not want to include a feature for which there is a large demand? In order
to accurately measure that demand, it has to be tested.

That is what the pre alpha, alpha, and beta tests are for. That is what I am suggesting.

 

Maybe because they think, it is better the way they designed and discussed it over "month"?

Back in UO when i tell RL friends of it, they all hated the idea of losing stuff when you die. After giving it a try they where okay with it!
So maybe just give the system they designed a try, and decide if you like it or not.

They want PvP, they want it to be challenging and with some risk. So maybe you love the concept when its finished?

When they have that feeling, let them try it!

 

Full loot does not need testing. That's a pretty simple function to add.

Just as deck combat system has base of "Dallas mode" they can fall back on. The current thinking for looting could always be reverted to full loot.

The deck combat was tested (internally) and they found that it's on track with what they wish to deliver but they can't answer the "Dallas" human condition. So what do they do, revert to a known good state that Dallas can work with.

Full loot does not have to be off the table, it can be optional. Let them test their current thinking plans. If that does not provide the elements of play you wish then hit them up.

 

Here's the problem:

 

Well thats not entirely true. You would not be able to judge it by just testing and here's why:

They announce they are going to try full looting and everyone interested will show up while those that aren't may not be so inclined. In the end you get a false positive at least statistically.
Also, they stated they wanted to encourage people to PVP, full loot will not encourage people who have never PVP'd to try it as they know they are going to lose many times before they get the hang of it.