Community Hangout - Skillz Son!

Okay, well, I tried to make the name on this fun because I think this is likely one of the more heated debates that could come into play... we've talked about skills once before but I want a chance for more people to get their opinions in and to have it covered in a more complete method... the hangout will occur during R10 so we will have live access to the skills system while talking about it. This will be a moderated hangout (moderated by myself) and will be a bit more like the first hangout we had... get ready for a long read because I want this hangout to be as useful to the veterans and hardcore fans as it can be...

Disclaimer: you need to know a lot about skills before joining this hangout... there are some veterans who don't know some of the basics here so PLEASE do your homework as I will be shooting down all "I wish they'd do this..." when it's already there. I'd like to get as much useful information to the devs as quickly as possible and we're going to cap this hangout at 2 hours (shorter is okay).

Examples:

Spoiler

1. Complaint about deck combat: I wish they would make it so I could play with static skills and not use the deck system.
   • My response: they already do, you can elect to lock some or all of your skills, please go read more on the skill system and come back for our next hangout.
2. Complaint about fizzle: I wish they would allow me to heal in plate armor without fizzle.
   • My response: they already do, heal doesn't fizzle no matter what armor type you use, please go read more on the skill system and come back for our next hangout.
3. Complaint about Deck Combos: I wish they would make it so I could create combos with my keyboard instead of needing to use the mouse... totally lame that we have to use the mouse...
   • My response: they already do, the "r" key is the default combo key, please go read more on the skill system and come back for our next hangout.

I want people who KNOW fully about the combat system and how it works and DON'T LIKE something about it... they have something they want changed. I don't want a bunch of people who come hangout and say "I like it how it is... don't change a thing!"... I'll be the only voice of "yes man" there if possible.

Agenda:

Spoiler

The first hour of this talk will be based on the design of combat from an non-application view... the "Conceptual Combat Chat" hour. The first question will be based off the poll and the #1 or #2 voted "dislike" will be addressed. This is where we'll talk about skill points, skill trees, debuffs, buffs, stacking buffs, diminishing returns, etc. This will be as a view from the system of rules to the player.

The second hour of this talk will be based on the application of combat from a non-design view... the "Keep Killing" hour. The first question will be based off the poll and the #1 or #2 voted "dislike" will be addressed. This is where we talk about user interface, keybinds, visual notifications, actual skills and their application, stuns, stun removal, global cooldowns, error handling (you used a skill too early), tool tips, etc. This will be as a view from the player to the system of rules.

I will be moving topics forward in an orderly manner and request that everyone is fully prepared for this conversation... I will be giving you no more than 120 seconds to voice your thought and no more than 180 seconds for rebuttals from other people... each topic point will have no more than 10 total minutes spent on it. At the end of each topic we will have a vote that will be a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" that members can choose to participate in or not... if you do not have a preference you will be asked to NOT VOTE.

What this is not:
This is not a place where people are going to come together and bash Portalarium for things they don't like. If you haven't been following me I'm a huge fan of this game and a firm believer that these guys know what they're doing. I trust them. They know better than I do. That said, I love the fact they're allowing us to be part of development and design like I have never been before. I love seeing the game before all it's parts are in place. I love the community we have here... I have lots of love for lots of things and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Please come ready to voice your requests with respect and in an honorable fashion. I will not tolerate someone badmouthing another player or Portalarium for a difference of opinions.

Details:

• When
  • Saturday the 27th at 7pm eastern, 6pm central, 4pm pacific
• How to get a seat
  • I will be posting a link to view the hangout both here and in the #SotA irc channel. I will NOT be posting a join link here and will be only inviting people who go through a vetted system prior... R.S.V.P. or you get no seat! I expect everyone to reply here if they have gone through the hoops and done their homework... say "Save me a spot" or something along those lines and I'll p.m. you.
• What you need to have first...
  • A webcam
  • A microphone (preference on a headset for speakers so we don't have sound quality issues)
  • A reason to be here (I have input on...)

Confirmed attendees (in order of acceptance):

• Baron Drocis Fondorlatos
• Golem Dragon
• TEK
• Lord Jouten
• Amberraine
• WrathPhoenix - decided to not attend.
• Sciamano
• Miracle Dragon

 

Interesting topic. The timing is what intrigues me the most. It's going to be right in the middle of R10 which is a polish release so I don't expect a lot of changes between now and then. However, I think the devs know based on feedback that the combat system needs a lot of polish, probably more than they can push into this build.

One thing I'd like to see more of during your hangout sessions is if you could keep your own opinions to a minimum. As the moderator, it's easy to speak with some level of authority, even unintentionally. When you add in one or two members from your own guild that generally see things from your same point of view, that's also going to lead the conversation in a particular way. If it were me, I'd just ask questions and stay out of the way, only chiming in to facilitate more conversation between guests. All the best hosts do this whether it be with individual guests or panels. For reference, listen to Terry Gross, or watch the late Tim Russert on old episodes of Meet the Press.

Another thing that I've noticed in previous hangouts is questions like "how many people think this way verses that way?" Well who cares? It's a very small sample of people and as I previously pointed out some of those people are inclined to agree with each other by default. It's probably better to ask leading questions (that can't be answered yes or no) and let the viewers decide who makes the most convincing arguments one way or another.

Overall I think you've done a good job trying to bring people together to talk about challenging subjects. My feedback is only an attempt to make these hang outs even more valuable to the community as well as the dev team.

 

you know my thoughts on parts of skills and combat so, as always I am up for any discussion session....

 

I didn't vote on any of the choices above as my gripe would be the conceptual foundation of the combat system. It's very tactical and its appeal really has nothing to do with roleplaying and everything to do with min/maxing the efficient use of damage and cool downs.

You can see my detailed thoughts here: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/tactics-vs-strategy.14595/

I think this is one more thing that I would add to this discussion. For those people interested in roleplaying, does this combat system do ANYTHING for you? I would argue it doesn't despite otherwise being a fan of the glyph system concept, but that's just my own personal opinion.

EDIT: I went ahead and voted on the "Current Design for Execution of Skills". In retrospect I think that roughly fits what I'm talking about above.

 

I voted for my biggest issue, movement.

 

I don't like the movement either. I honestly think it should be locked (to some degree) while you're in combat. But what is that you don't like?

 

I am not voting, but I do not like few things:

- Ability to target with TAB (especially for hidden enemies).
- Outlines of enemies visible through walls (sometimes).
- Not matching visual effects (especially polearms hitting you, even if you are too far from your oponent and you see him to miss you by several metres).
- Ability to fire arrows/spells through obstacles (if you started the attack with enemy in sight).
- Combat rolls not making it possible to avoid attacks (same principle as the previous point).
- No real counter-attacks. No option to properly evade the attack or to block it (well there were some random interrupts, especially if you stunned your enemy but those were rather random to count on them).

 

In combat you can't really use mouse movement because of the camera movement. I wish I could lock the camera behind me and then move free with the mouse so I can use the keys for glyphs. Because then I have only to look each 3 sec on the combatbar for new glyphs and not each time I want to use a glayph and have to aim with the mouse. If that's changed I have more time to look for the focus and health bars of me and my party.

At the moment I can only fight when standing and watch the different bars or move, fight but have to ignore the bars.

 

That would be great if you would join us and give your thought! I invite my guild members because they're active people from the community who I often argue with and they have differing points of view from me. I would love to have more people from outside our circle, would you join us? Please keep in mind the requirements I've requested for this hangout before deciding. Thanks!

 

The guild members you've had on have been great. I have nothing against them personally, it's just better to have more diversity if you can (yes I understand you're limited to the total population who agrees to attend). Yes, I'll attend.

 

Confirmed attendee: Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

 

Confirmed attendee: Golem Dragon

 

wooot, i like more variety in visitors... welcome!!!!

 

sadly it is sometimes difficult to get a full G+ hangout of ppl due to time, scheduling, interest, etc. I have commented multiple times that I personally would be fine with sitting out for some hangouts if we get enough interest. I can easily talk about and be devils advocate on any topic of game design or game mechanics that come up for sota. Variety to get those who are more emotionally invested in a topic can be a good and bad thing, but it is nice that community members are willing and ready to let there be a shuffling so ppl can have their time on stream where they can be both seen and heard, and focus it on one youtube channel instead of multiple channels.

 

I would like to join this hangout. My concerns would be

1. any form of cooldowns in glyph combat.
2. root and stun spam
3. lack of regeant requiement for magic
4. magic/melee/archery should not all be equal and balance.

 

Maybe this is not a popular suggestion but -

incorporating "attacks on deck" would actually make the system better - I think that it would open up the door for a more enjoyable and tactical experience (it may make things harder to manage / so some thought would have to go into that)

@smack brought up the idea - I have not read his posts

But for example - ability to - make someone redraw their deck (via a knockback or other already established game designs)

Example - an elemental - earth elemental - attacks your deck by blocking 2 slots from use or appearing for 5 seconds .. different attacks could be extrapolated for different elementals pets

Just an idea - not sure if this could be fit into the discussion or not - just throwing it out there

 

This does not have an option for "the current design". Period.

 

I know thats why i did not vote :]

 

So are either of you interested in a seat to talk about all of the things you see as better options?

 

I'll go ahead and join in on this. There's plenty of things to talk about, BUT there's also a lot of background information that needs to be shared before anybody starts * flinging.

*edited for language - Koldar