Penalize blue healers

So if your pro PvP why would you want toxic game-play such as allowing blue healers that are untouchable. That is worse than having open PvP through the game (and btw I would like to have open PvP because it prevents issues such as this).

 

@spoon While I think your idea is a novel one, it gets more complicated when you try to solve for edge cases.

The simple solution is the most obvious one. Flagged and non-flagged players can't perform certain actions against/for each other. By allowing certain cross-flag interactions, you are defeating the whole purpose of flagging.

Regarding parties, yes, I think they will do something where the party leader sets the flag and the whole party is uniformly flagged, while still obeying any global cooldowns. They need to implement similar logic for guild PvP anyways.

 

I see your intentions but think the opposite case, today I was attacked by a PVP player and I defended my self and had to run away when
I noticed he had a "blue" = (non PVP flaged) friend healing him.

Non PVP player should be flaged as PVP when healing a PVP player.

 

OH YES. If you enter into a fight you should loose your immunity. By casting beneficial spells on an a player engaged in CONSENTUAL combat, you have essentially chosen a side and effected the outcome. This is true in a town duel, or in the field. A proper cool down timer is needed.

I would give concession for area spells like healing burst, and rain in the event of multiple guild, ppl flagged for PVP, guards, etc. involved in the same fight.

 

What? I'm the original poster who wants non-PvPers to flag (aka not being "untouchable") if they cast beneficial spells on PvPers. I want there to be consequences, and i want there to be choices.

 

My apologies.... Should pay more attention

 

then organize - pvp communities are REALLY good at that - and setup a KOS list with reasons. anyone who dislikes dishonorable kills, would be willing to look for it before acting. i would..

see, spawn camping just because you can is not an honorable way to do it.. or when they are setting their skills. that is not only a rule for RP PVPers, but also for many people in the PVP world.

i'd fully expect spawn/skill trainer campers to be KOS, in any game.

 

nope.

community police. if the people who are doing the dishonerable things are held fully accountable for that dishonor - and that is one method to do it - they WILL think twice and maybe start acting like civilized heathens.

 

err no they won't....what planet you on???

If they let blues heal PvPers without flagging then every guild (including mine) would run around with non-pvp healers and there is a good chance there would end griefing others......I mean why not allow the healing of monsters while we are at it?

 

and that IS a big problem, once the game goes live - which is why we're having the conversation in the first place.

i'd love to see a moderated KOS list of sorts built into the game - pvp or not, you are on the list, and you are fair game..

 

This is what I would expect to see happening as well.

If the oracle is keeping someone out of pvp then that should also include keeping those from healing others that are in pvp. Since healing in a pvp battle is still part of pvp.

 

Yea, this is kind of necessary. I was running around with a guy who was PvP flagged as a healer when he got jumped, and I started healing him, not thinking tiwce about it, and he was putting up a prety decent fight against 4 guys simply because they couldn't do anything to cut off his heals. They got him down eventually, but damn, that can be exploited to hell and back.

In all honesty though, I think it should work the other way around. You shouldn't be able to heal a PvP flagged person at all unless you are grouped with them, and if you're PvP flagged and you're grouping with people who aren't then your PvP flag should be suspended for the time being. Otherwise it basically makes dealing with PvP flagged people too much of a liability for people who just don't want to PvP, and will be exploitable to trick people into flagging up in a lot of ways.

 

I agree spawn camping is an issue, but that is something we should solve, but not by allowing immune healers. Spawn camping as it pertains to rezzing back into the scene (death cooldown, 50% health, etc) or entry/exit points in scenes will need to be solved differently. We should have a separate thread just on that very topic, but I'm sure there are many here already.

Regarding skill trainer camping -- or any mode where you happen to be talking to an NPC, sorting through your inventory, buying from vendors, looking at the map, picking your nose, went AFK, etc. -- should not be protected. That was your choice to go Open PvP. What next, protecting Open PvP miners while they harvest? If you're not going to watch your back while flagged as Open PvP, then don't flag yourself Open PvP.

By protecting Open PvP players in any of those modes, we are both diluting the experience and providing a safe haven from Open PvP. Go spam attack someone, go run to a skill trainer and boom, you're protected for as long as you're talking to him. Oh, let's introduce cooldown timers to engage in those activities then. Spam attack, run around till cooldown timer expires, go talk to a skill trainer. Safe haven and even the Oracle can't touch you. Ok, try other solutions...rinse, repeat...now the logic just gets complex and messy for edge cases and loopholes we eventually find.

Keep it simple. If you're not prepared to die at any time, don't flag yourself Open PvP. There are PvP-only zones, PvP Arenas, and duels if you want safety.

 

I agree with this Smack, but the only thing I will add is that this has been tested, and it drove people to leave games in the past, unfortunately. Its definitely a dilemma but If it affects people playing or just not logging in again then something must be done. I got rez killed repeatedly at the spawn point but it was no big deal to me. I just got naked and let them do it. Some won't have that tolerance. Also I do not think blues should be able to heal pvp'rs. It is bad form. I have done it though, just because I noticed some one else doing it and had to make the game fair.

 

what would you recommend? - and i personally feel that this is all part of the same conversation. they are interconnected, after all.

no, i think the line should be drawn with skill trainer and spawn camping. protect those, but give a brief countdown on the action starting and action completing... so you can't run by and double-click it if you are losing a fight, and so you are protected when perfecting your spec. if after, say 10 seconds, the player doesn't move after being re-spawned - they should be fair game. that would give them the time to run and start the process of dropping pvp flag. - as for skill training, i'd say if you run up and double-click while pvp - for the next 3 seconds you are vulnerable...and it should not LET you double-click on it if you are still in combat or taking damage.. if you take damage within the 3 seconds, you auto-exit the skill trainer and no changes are taken into consideration so you CAN protect yourself. - also, dropping the skill trainer window, 2 seconds. you are usually more ready for a fight faster at that point.

here's WHY i think those two actions should be protected: the moment you open the skill window, you are breaking the 4th wall and losing some immersion, that helps you respond somewhat quickly to an attack. you are at a major disadvantage then, and the point of respeccing there is to do better next time. why penalize yourself there?

 

hm... "had to make the game fair." - there are multiple mindsets on that. one, being that it IS fair, after all it is sandbox. like Voltaire said, if there is a god (dev), they must have been like a watchmaker, setting the mechanisms in place and just turning it on, watching it evolve. (clearly not a direct translation) - the rules you added to that scenario, "to make it fair" can go in any direction, and that is all about the community policing itself without bothering the devs for a change of code. there is always an order to the chaos, after all.

 

i agree with everything except the trainer simply because it can be exploited in a way that leaves a player with half there skill points unspent and no working deck to defend themselves with.

 

I can understand the issue specific for Skill Trainers. One way to mitigate this is to change the way skill trainers work. Rather than make changes immediately (and get charged immediately), treat it as a temporary one where you can respec however you like, but the changes don't apply until you hit a Commit or Finalize button -- much like we do with Vendors. Then you are charged for the changes at the end, not each time you're playing with resepc during the transaction.

 

This is a generalization so don't take it personally until you heal my opponent!

well i agree that spawn killing is wrong, but if your flagged PVP then so be it! if your not flagged PVP theres nothing for you to worry about! I dont see how PVPing in your vicinity as a PVE can do anything at all to you!? (how does it disrupt you negatively?) Non pvp healers should not be able to heal fighters that are flagged PVP! If they do they should be attack able!

Way back when we were all having heated discussions all i heard is "i dont want to pvp and be ganked all the time, i dont want PVP to effect my game play" but here is an example in plain color how PVE can also be grefiers of PVP.
Hey you dont like PVP fine then dont involve yourself. I swear if im in a battle fighting another PVP and a Non PVP heals my opponent i will find a way to to disrupt your PVE lifestyle and possibly drag mobs onto you and disappear until they kill you off!! Thats the selfish side of PVE that ive seen thus far in these forums "my way or no way!" and its things like that that keep the fuel fired up between PVP and PVE.

 

becuase we as PVP cannot attack that blue healing our opponent that is ridiculous as well, if you heal a pvp, while fighting another pvp and you are non pvp, you should be open pvp at that moment until either you die or your friend you were healing dies!