I feel lied to by companies that do Early Releases.

Greetings friend, and yes of course I remember you.

 

ya never know how you look in other peoples eyes.

 

No, it means I'm not a designer for Portalarium, can't speak for them, and can only interpret what signs they gave so far.

Let's imagine, for the sake of a civil argument, that you and those other hundreds (I'd love to meet them ingame, but I digress) are right, and that your collective suggestion for a replacement system is a good one, and goes in.

Then, coming release, the shortcomings of *your* solution, reluctantly implemented after incessant "product feedback" (or whining, your choice), tank the game, like the endless stream of other "three-monthers" before SotA can testify.

How you'd feel?

I can tell you how I felt today at Paxlair 1-year celebration, when Lord British appeared, hang out with us, danced, cheered, joked a bit, and at some point learnt of a curious bug: when you have many snowball chests in a lot, you open and close all of them at once, fiddling with one of them.

"That's not good".

He reported that in a Jira for the devs to fix it.

Before my very eyes - and those of around other ~30 people watching in awe.

Ok, feel free to wait this behavior from the CEO of Electronic Arts, Activision, or Ubisoft. And don't forget to tell me how it goes.

For the "get a clue" oldskooler, here's my clue - very oldskool: *PLONK*.

 

We live in a world of political correctness, a world that in my opinion is destroying itself. Political correctness sure hasn't done corporate America any favors, as evidence by some of the scathing remarks towards corporate game manufacturers here in this very thread. Perhaps a little less political correctness is exactly what we need, even if we are only talking about a game.

 

You won't meet them in game because they already left. If you wanna' meet them, go look in reviews and comments sections anywhere but this forum - you'll find them, and they'll have plenty to talk about, I promise you.

These suggestions aren't just "whining" or "complaining" because we don't like a system we haven't tried yet. We have tried the system, and at its core, it's a bad system. I'm not gonna' baby people and say "well, it could use some work"; no, it can't "use some work" or "polish" or "balancing". The system itself depends on interaction from the player that directly removes them from the immersive experience. You cannot create any kind of UI that will allow a player to manage a deck of cards with any peripheral and say, "See, you can still be immersed!"

That's the problem. Proponents are constantly talking about how the UI can be fixed where it'll be fun to use - but it cannot. Prove me wrong. If you think it can, give me one suggestion that allows the random deck to be used immersively without drawing attention away from a veteran player. I guarantee you you cannot do it. You can't manage a constantly changing deck of cards and still play a game involving live-action combat with positioning and environmental exploration with constantly changing mobs (new ones spawning, old ones maneuvering and running around, mages casting certain spells). You will always have to look at your deck of cards because you cannot know what cards you have without it. That's just how that works.

This is a crowdsourced game with a team in the tens, not hundreds. He's walking among his adoring fans - it's a little different. Crowdsourced games do this kind of interaction more regularly now if they don't want to be left behind by their backers. Don't get me wrong, applaud his interaction with his constituents, but don't compare corporations who put out several AAA titles a year to a crowdsourced game that's over a year behind schedule that isn't even making a single A title. That's apples and nuclear proliferation.

 

As much as i support the combat system I must say i agree with that affirmation. If there's a way of achieving that, i think the person who finds it should earn a Nobel because from my point of view fully immersive and deck combat system won't go in the same phrase ever. Don't get me wrong, I still like the random deck system, and i think the amount of attention it requires at the moment can be lessened... but that's probably because i don't care if it could be fully immersive since I think it could be interesting and fun. For some people not immersive means not fun... i'm not one of those.

Maybe the question that needs to be asked to the community is "Are you willing to sacrifice immersion for what current combat system may be?" If the answer is nope, combat should be changed into something else.

 

Your expectations and what you were told you were getting appear to be two different things. No, you're not paying for a game that wipes every 2 months. You're paying for early access to game that is in development for the purpose of Testing/fishing out bugs. You shouldn't be in the game right now with any kind of mindset that you would normally have for a finished game. If you think it's ridiculous for wipes to occur when it is still in a pre-alpha state then maybe you should pay attention to what you are buying into next time. Maybe you should stop playing the game now and come back when it's finished. Game development is a long process and setbacks will happen. The benefit of backing this game is that the developers are and have been honest with us every step of the way. You literally can't ask for more from these guys. It's not like we are dealing with Trion here.

 

So you're proposing to ignore us ? ... how mature and old school of you, ok back to reading, dude...

Well I think pretty much everyone said exactly what I think...

I think it can be fixed, and I should earn a nobel, well thats not up to me to decide but I'll gladly dedicate it to the extra-dimentional being who whispered it all in my ear.

You see the goal in this forum here is to "be who you are" just as in game... and well I can't, people can go godmode, pvp looks like a bunch of fireworks everyone is a mage kinda thing, the immersion is broken and I've spoke about clear fixes, along with others and even if noone else had any suggestion this one wasn't listened to.

I know right now I can say US, and only your eyebrows will waiver... can you say the same ?

Or are you comfortably sat in your chair and making the selfish decision ?

Your matrix decoding skills are fading, is it because you chose fire magic for DPS ?

 

Ok, ran out of ammo. Can't reply anything else. You're right, and Portalarium are horrible, mischievous beings.

I'll pledge your own kickstarter, and play your own game once it's out.

Like me now: I'm out.

Enjoy your pyrrhic victory.

 

I'm sure you're cool... but we're all a bunch of nerd fanboi's here, which is why I played a bit humorously on my "credibility" and "prestige" yet... I inspired you to be a little more poetic, more content, less shiny colors.

I'm happy, honestly I am not regretting my pledge one bit, in fact I learned so much in my experience to UO and always paid EA instead of Mr. Gariott. Thus I even feel privileged to have shared this experience.

I'm still unhappy about the direction this is taking, its like the total opposite of what I expected, but then again maybe the mysterious man I haven't named and noone could guess yet (ppl skip the fun parts all the time ) had more influence on certain things I admired about UO which could have been reproduced here easily without changing too much the developpement course.

Is that even a phrase ? If its a good phrase, I made lots of progress in english, this has all come out at once.

Nothing to hide here, we're all geeks

It's just a little slap in the face, must keep ego out of the equation to succeed.

 

I had a flash before drinking my first sip of coffee and getting to work, sadly on something boring and nothing like developping a game

Anyways, there was this flash in my mind, which encompassed my years of D&D and LARP and I tought about how many GMs to seem "cool" would include some assasination then detective contracts, I was even often hired to play a double character which proved to be hard because we had a generation of smart asses

But then I tought about what really goes on in the heart of people, and generally its true, people like to fight thats a given, but they like honest fights honest as in face to face and nothing is hidden I don't take my poisoned dagger to a fight, lol. That would be absurd...

Nobody really like thieves and assasins, well some might because of stories they've read and who dosen't like the ingenious lovable thief that only really steals the rich and woman's hearts ? Right ?

You guys see where I'm going, nobody wants it, only those with literrary or strategic interest can really appreciate "thieving" stories, and the detective lives to elucidate what other humans have tried to conceal.

Thats fine, I never judged people and often when I played those roles in LARP I would sense my way through it, and if it clearly made the person feel bad for being stalked and stolen from, I'd skip their part if possible. I pride myself in being an empath and not a telepath who insists on everything.

The fact being ; I realise now that it was never accepted even among the creators of such events, I think back about it and even if it was all a game, a GM was always very weary of sending me like a wolf in the wild cause I was really going to make the most of what he "gave me" and sometimes that could cause disastrous massacres which ruined the fun of many people, still within the rules.

But then why would the GM still take that risk ?

Sorry for schooling you guys on this again but ; its because they wanted to know (the GMs) who was really loyal to who and if an assasin joined a team of certain players how long would it be before they denounce him for his strange escapades into the wild without telling anyone his forebodings.

And I only met ONE player ever, who also was wise enough to consider that variable. He was an old man who prayed a priest, you'll think yea of course right, well he was handicaped and it was pretty much the only thing he could do, but his mind weren't so weak and he chose the proper people to protect his estate which would have fallen to the evil GM's plans much sooner cause the GM didn't like so much people "chilling" in the church thus making the game developpement slower over the short period of time we had to play. That was fun, his fine intuitive sense combined with his understanding led to him hiring people to test his followers loyalty and it was pure genius and he never tested me so I was a happy paladin (right that was one of my first LARPs and I was a shiny paladin with one quarter of a chainmail, no kidding I didin't have time to complete it and still wanted to wear it, it was ridiculous but I was fully armored in my mind and young, and true, he never should have tested me.

So among all the story that evolved in the next LARPS, I evolved with that guy, and the trust was even stronger because he could "read" me and intuitively chose to trust me on gut feeling alone. In retrospect it might seem simple but thats why its such a good example of what is missing here :

A story so intricate and dynamic that even without any GM input people know how to play their role, trolling is minimal and people develop a strong sense of loyalty beteween themselves AND the game.

Because we trust the game to be intelligent enough to include such things that will make loyalty and honor worth it. A simple virtue system dosen't cut it and it never did. A simple magic system dosen't cut it either, and it never did.

Some "good" players need superpowers to defend themselves, virtue should be a real halo of good luck around a paladin. A mage should have a real halo of magic... which is defined by the ingenuity of his spells and not the amount of times he casted a spell (aka level)...

When the story progressed and the GM realised I was lagging behind cause I joined the LARP late, and he realised I was truely paladin like (I sacrificed my life and my character to save the priest) he soon came to me with "boosts" and new powers. The balancing act was something human and everpresent in the imagination, what if my opponent has received a GM boost, his prestige might be an incidation of the possibility that he attracted a GM'S attention. Hmm, food for tought... maybe I shouldn't attack him.

You see all the shades of complexity we just added ? Complexity that also makes a king's character unfold symetrically.

Nobody expected a GM to be ever perfect, but clearly not everyone is cut to be GM, it requires a special type of illumination to follow a story that includes mystical and legendary elements and weave all this into something fun.

Coming back in a circle to where I came in, fun that can be ruined if the adversary is too clever and the GM did a bad balancing act between his evil and his good. So yes...

Nobody likes thieves and assasins, until they realise how powerful the friendship that can be created when they're allowed to roam free. Especially free from unreal constraints that seem like GM assistance, but indeed is a blanket of lies projected upon the masses.

A blanket of excuses, which to me is both insulting and pretentious, because it goes so much against the spirit of the age, D&D, and whats cool, after all.

Now we'll have nice guilds and player towns who were formed by everything else thats good, thats politically correct and thats practical. I can say : HI CAN I JOIN YOUR GUILD
Guild : Well this is a roleplaying guild and we expect you to do a minimum of reading and understand complex concepts of social interaction.
Me : WELL I CAN LEARN
Guild : Start by removing your capslock, please.
Me : alright, is dis better
Guild : Yea, I guess, hmm... where to start, you're IN !


Alright this is silly... but still !

I am silly, I am a geek, I like to feel what I play, to be imersed in my universe, to imagine the possibilities, to dream...

Perseverance is definately a forgotten virtue, I've come to teach yall some.

I want my game, I want a true LORD BRITISH GAME ! My Gariott you said so often how much it was a total out WAR to get the right to use some UO pictures in your collection and broadcasts, like the cloth map and everything we loved... well why isn't it an all out WAR to provide your most loyal playerbase with a game system that encourages the proper axioms of virtue ?! How can a knight be virtuous if its a rule to be virtuous ?!

WHY are you constructing a game which insults and blankets US, the people you have helped forge ? The strong and deep characters who would be blindly loyal to your rule ?

THATS THE TRUTH, some are still here reading this, and our bond is to strong that many would instantly flock to the game and bring more loyal friends and everyone is happy because the game is financed forever and becomes arches of gold in our hearts because of the memories that are created...

I won't attempt to speculate on why we're looking at a medieval SIMS and thinking, hey its going to be fine.

ITS NOT GOING TO BE FINE !!!

There will be no game, and I'm not going to program that game, I'm going to give it to someone who can handle it cause I don't have enough friends I can trust to make such a story alive without it being corrupted to the bone by money and the same prestige I looked for in the first place.

I WANT MY GAME !!! *whines like a pathetic baby*

I was happy when I learned about SOTA, SO HAPPY.

NOW I'M SO ANGRY !

 

And I want my game because I love whats been done !!

*shakes fists in the air*

The art direction is wonderful, the lore direction is to my liking... everything else but the basic premise and the execution of a "spiritual sucessor" of ultimas.

It's not a SIMS, no... please tell me it isn't true...

*bleeds on the ground*

*looks at himself and laughs in joy*

 

Which is why I don't play this game yet. I played it enough to know I wanted to support it. But the thought of playing the same bit of the game over and over is nauseating to me. The last thing I want to do is burn myself out on this game before it is actually released. More power to those of you who feel differently.

 

I understand where you're coming from but I have to disagree on your primary point.

The entire mechanic is actually pretty solid as it revolves around the idea that you control how those cards are displayed on your action bar... and everything is consistently done through the skill trees.

• How many buttons you have.
• How fast the skills are drawn.
• How fast the skills are discarded.
• How many skills do you want locked.
• How much focus you have.

It's all there and it's all based on how you invest in your points when you level up. For a video game that's not specifically designed for intense real-time combat, that's a lot of flexibility. So, yeah, the randomness of the cards makes it practically impossible to immerse yourself in "the moment" since you're effectively looking at 3 very distinct areas on the screen but it's also the combat mode that allows the most utility. Meaning it's potentially the most powerful method of combat for skilled players.

It's also one of the few combat systems that can represent a character's progression from a mechanical standpoint instead of merely increasing an arbitrary number (damage, health, etc). You FEEL the sluggishness of the combat in the early levels and, as you progress, you can lock it down further and further.

The execution is far from perfect, but the idea is far from being broken.

 

I agree, I liked the idea initially and think it still is fixable... it just needs to be more logical and some parts need to use AI to help with immersion.

I've looked at many techniques and it "seems like" the avatar forgets things at critical moments, when its a life and death situation, unless you are stunned you shouldn't "forget" some of your most essential skills or have to trade off too much focus or variety for using them as locked options.

This was discussed already in detail however, I've seen no firm dev response about it...

 

I wouldn't say playing whack-a-mole with the same 25 nukes is a major definition of "skilled" gameplay. It's twitch and getting lucky that the cards pull when you need them. If you have a bad string of cards where all you get are "Push" or "Gust" cards, when you're trying to stop your enemy and all you need is a trip or stun or mez, are you going to say, "Well, I guess I just suck"? No, you know what you're supposed to do, and you know how to do it. You just can't, and it isn't because the enemy did something to foil your plans. It's just RNG.

I definitely can see that, personally, but I don't think that was the intention. Furthermore, RG himself said multiple times they want a Level 30 to be able to stand up to a Level 50; that is simply impossible when you have to invest 20 of those levels into Focus and the UI.

Not to mention most people aren't going to see it that way. It's so counterintuitive it doesn't fit into what people are expecting. And again, as you said yourself, it doesn't help with either immersion nor, as I said, fit with the original intentions they said about level equality in combat.

 

Thats the parts that needs to get fixed... which we discussed and suggested aplenty

I've been away from the forums how long ? MONTHS ?!

and we're still talking to this wall...

great...

 

As a dedicated rogue-like player, I can tell you with utmost confidence that dealing with what you got (rng) is also a skill. Building a deck in Magic the Gathering is another skill altogether as it's the foundation of your entire strategy which has a higher importance on your performance than how random the draws are.

The min-maxers (what you're describing) will most likely play with the locked skills and that's totally okay; because the system allows it.

That's primarily a balance issue (weapons, skills power & their accessibility, etc) and has very little to do with the actual draw mechanic itself.

Personally, I don't believe a developer when he claims that a low level stands a chance against a high level character... but it IS possible; I'm just not going to expect it out of any developer.

I'll also point out that the "immersion" breaking aspect of the system is due to the visual presentation of the system; not the system itself... which definitely needs work.

 

That's fine if this was a card game; it isn't. It's an MMO-like with a card-based combat system. If this was Metal Gear Ac!d, again, that'd be cool - but it isn't. It's a live action, real time MMO that moves and feels like a standard action RPG/MMORPG until you draw your sword. That's what breaks the immersion. The UI is just annoying, but it's the idea that at any given moment, my life is in the hands of cards.

I doubt that. The system is DPS-based and you can find similar spells that you can quickly stack between mezzes. Tactical glyphs won't be reliable so people won't use them. Melee simply won't command tempo, not with their eyes all over the screen and not on the action.

It's possible, even with this system. @KuBaTRiZeS mentioned and I talked about having it where it was limited after Level 30 for things like stats.

 

Lol, I would love to know what exactly corporate America has done for you Moonshadow?