Let's settle this once and for all. Card combat, Good or Bad

Why don't you Press R and combine the skills? Or discard the skills you don't want? I find my combined skills hit harder than the ones not combined. Its the only thing I see of worth for the deck system.

Or do you only have 3 active abilities with 200 points spent?

 

Its NOT tactical at all, tactical would mean that you are watching the environment, watching to enemy to work out how to best exploit weaknesses such as a fast moving but lightly armoured enemy could dodge out of range of a slow moving but powerful spell like a fire ball but a magic arrow or missile would have a greater effect than on a slow moving heavily armoured target. Is there an environmental factor I could exploit like a bottle neck and using a fire wall spell or vines type spell to trap enemies coming through leaving them vulnerable to slower moving more powerful spells? could I flank them and hit them from behind? Is this sort of enemy weaker to fire or ice? ect THAT is tactical combat

 

wow lol i guess you think no one else here can say this? care to take a stab at my resume? as for everything else in your post, come on maaaan, the fact that you are furiously managing your hotbar tells me you need to spend more time play testing this game. the rest of that post had nothing to do with card combat and was all about balance, which everyone knows still needs work, at least those of us that have been here a while.


@Freeman your mind seems made up, I'm not here to sell you this game, I'm here to provide feedback on MY expiences, that i have been having with a game i play test almost daily, in hopes that they may better inform the public and improve the outcome of this game, if you don't want to look at the feedback on this system from someon like myself objectively than by all means, proceed.

 

people get out from under my fireballs all the time, in fact it requires ore tactics to hit someone with it than it does for them to get out of its way, there is a serious lack of tactics in this game but that has nothing to do with the mechanics or the envirnment,it has to do with the players not using any any.

and yes , your bottleneck scenerio does exist, i experiencedit 4 time last night

 

It wasn't a personal attack. Just stating where my opinion stems from. You were clearly affected by what I said. I didn't intend to do such a thing. In fact I stated it up front. You forgot that part of the quote. . . I made my statements without ego involved. The way I read your post, you have involved your ego. I learned a long time ago that ego leads to bias. Bias interferes with testing.

I am not intending condescension.

Actually, if you had read my post at all you would have noticed I mentioned systemic thinking. Systemic thinking in the context of software development ties developing features to create the total concept of the software itself.

It is of import to note we are located in the game features of the forum.

All the features combined form the software. However, the sum of the parts does not necessarily equal the whole. I take that approach to designing anything. This type of thinking can or is used in the creation of electrical circuits, software, communication networks, buildings, etc. However, I am veering off topic and would like to return to the point of this thread.

The card mechanic is a feature. This feature is a small part of the entirety of the system. I say that we cannot differentiate between card mechanics and balance. If one or both systems stay. Then both must be modified with respect to the other. They are inexorably tied together. Which brings me to my next point.

If you believe the card system has no direct affect on any other system ... I challenge you to quantify that belief. . .

You are assuming I haven't tested anything. If you read my original post, I state obvious cases where I performed a test. You too can perform the test following my steps. You can even take my test a step further by actually testing it against people and/or NPCs. However, in most cases it isn't needed. Because the fundamental concepts, features, are flawed. If you don't agree with my tests, see previous statements where I state that the systems do not function independently of one another. Until you prove that they are through qualification, you'll continue to believe that a topic such as the card system doesn't affect other parts of the game.

Also, I noticed you didn't actually try to qualify or quantify any of the actual, major points of my post. You became defensive and aggressive. You assumed and presumed to understand what I do in a video game, how quickly I accomplish tasks, how many builds I've tried, what actions I've performed, if I'm working alone or in a group and a whole lot of other variables.

Inevitably after everyone realizes the systems are inexorably tied together we can begin moving forward with balance, character development, the mini game and combat.

 

That is not the definition of tactical. which is (In this context):

"(of a person or their actions) showing adroit planning; aiming at an end beyond the immediate action."

choosing what to discard(looking for long term goal), what to combine, and when to do those things is highly tactical. Just because you want to play the game differently than it's designed doesn't make it less tactical. However, I would like to see those other tactics you mentioned added in-there is nothing preventing them from doing that with the current system.

 

I dont even know where to begin with you, if you thought that was defensive or aggressive you dont know me very well, lol, but good job of 'qualifying' your condensation ... of not only me ...

I didnt address your post because I found it to be uneducated poppycock

 

How do you achieve this in the game? I have to achieve this by playing a mini game. I am forced to focus more on combining my skills rather than looking at what I'm fighting. It isn't a bad system ... but it is a system I'd expect to find in a fighting game or an action oriented game.

Edit: Wanted to let everyone know that I broke SotA. I was able to micro manage the mini game to achieve a level 9 quadruple slash in 5 seconds. I feel accomplished.

 

Now I will be condescending....


If you believe it to be uneducated poppycock you should read more then. There is an entire school of thought which many educated people utilize in their work place and lives (example are engineers and scientists). Some societies live by that method of thinking (example is Deutchland) and based on the words you utilized to make your pitiful counter arguements I bet your country (but I could be wrong about where you live).

Condensation involves water...

Qualifying in this context is using subjective words in an attempt to prove a point. Example, talking about a supernatural entity some people call God.

You may want to put the shovel down before you finish the hole. Because it is apparent your level of emotional involvement in your posts. This will be my last post to you as I feel you have too much emotional investment in trying to win some fictitious battle. I am not your enemy. If you are attempting to troll, you have failed. If you are sincere in your thoughts, read more books. Because not only will you find a plethora of examples to absolutely demolish your beliefs that Systemic Thinking is not 'poppycock' you may find that it may reveal a new world (that last bit is qualifying because I can't prove you'll actually learn something).

 

Open your mind!

 

Planning before an action is general strategy; using that strategy depending on how circumstances change (because of the environment, malfunction or, most importantly, how the opposition reacts or impedes your planning) is tactics. Additionally, considering you cannot determine when those options are available in order to use tactically, no, it isn't a tactical combat system.

Also, 50/50 is your banner to stand behind? That the community is split 50/50 in one poll (and 60/40 "against" or worse in all the others) where combat is concerned is your selling point for a fundamental feature of the game that nearly every single person will be using regularly?

PS: We're "Mostly Positive" on Steam, for those who were banging on pots and pans about that "Very Positive" rating we had two months ago.

 

Choosing which type of armor I wear, what types of cards to have in my deck, what zone I choose to play in, what mobs I fight, when I jump out from behind a hill and attack another player, all of these are ALSO highly tactical, or as @Dewderonomy points out strategic. The decision to take a step back or forward in combat is tactical in nature, especially so in a system where you will face an immediate increase in all ability costs of up to 33% for doing so. But having individual strategic or tactical decisions available does NOT make the system itself worthy of being called "tactical combat". What we have right now is still very much a stack and spam war. You stack as much defense as you can, and then as much offense as you can, plant your feet and spam till either you or the enemy dies. You can sort your hand all you want, it's still going to be dealing randomly selected abilities at random intervals (even with talent and deckbuilding controls), and few if any of those abilities are going to count for more than "I deal damage to them" or "I prevent/heal damage from them to me".

Where is the sucker punch? The feint? Where is circling for advantage before the strike? Where is the issue of maintaining balance, or of getting better footing? Where is the idea of inertia, or of relative size and reach?

Right now everything is rough and unfinished, yes, but what are we SHOOTING for? Is the finished product going to look like this only better, with everyone leveling up multiple skill trees to make effective stack and spam characters, the only difference being how much they stack offense vs how much they stack defense? Is the devs vision of final combat served by the idea of everyone standing still building lethal combo abilities for a super kill move? Is this going to become Dragonball-Z?

 

Well, it will take at least 3 episodes until we have all the things they sold us on...

 

This isn't even my final form.

 

Are you also in alpha near-beta pre-alpha, too??

 

Why was my post removed? It wasn't caustic. I wasn't personally attacking anyone. I was sharing my knowledge. I'm an engineer and that is how I think. Its how the game developers may be thinking. Whoever removed it I'd like a response for why.

Double Edit: Is my freedom of speech being suppressed?

 

This isn't exactly true ... At level 1 can you go to Savrenoc Stronghold? That isn't freedom. That is zoned based. This is a near linear experience.

Gosh I hope I reach SS5

 

Well after some extensive testing ... I've finally concluded that the glyphs are not random in any way shape or form. You can actually force the glyphs to come as you desire ... Let me explain

I'm level 39 now ... But I was level 34 when I started my test. Picture attached. Sorry for the size.



So while fighting, I furiously combine double slash and thrust to form quadruple slash. I combine quadruple slash. Because of my points in Focus quadruple slash sticks around until Flame Fist has been stacked. So I end up having level 5 Quadruple Slash and Level 5 Flame Fist. I then use Quadruple slash and hold Flame Fist as long as I can. While holding onto Flame Fist, Double Slash and Thrust starts pulling from my deck into my hand. It almost always goes into my hand from left to right. It makes it nearly predictable. The only problem is it is incredibly hard to keep up the pace of doing this for long periods of time.

If I want to not utilize Quadruple Slash as my combo I can cancel any deck pulled Double Slash with CTRL+N (where N is the number in my hand in which Double Slash has been pulled) to form Smoldering Shiv. Or I can combine Double Slash and have only Flame Fist and Thrust be pulled into my hand. Once I use that rotation, the rotation becomes obvious and I can continually utilize Smoldering Shiv and Double Slash level 5.

Its extremely tough work and to be honest, I'd rather have an in game program which prioritizes the cards automatically for combining / combo creation.

I still don't like the system regardless if my card micromanagement skills and ability to look at the mob is on par. That is some seriously rough work and not something I want in an RPG I play.

 

Well, I supposed I should have qualified it as saying that it gives you the OPTION to play more tactically. You don't HAVE to take advantage of flanking, for instance. I found out quickly that it's more fun and effective to move around then to stand still. I expect that as other combat features come online that you will want to move more and pay more attention on what spells/attacks are most effective against which enemies. I mentioned this weakness in my original post, but I don't think that has anyhting to do with the combat system itself, but rather from a lack of monster abilities, resistances, etc.

 

Now now, that's taking me out of context. I was speaking about the system's potential there, not your specific ability at level one. You get to make tactical decisions at level one, but that too does not all by itself qualify this combat system as being a tactical combat engine.