POT Choice to remove Single Player Online Mode

And yes, I hope @Chris, @DarkStarr, and @RichardGarriott do think about this. From my perspective, it's not a very difficult decision to make. On the one hand you have a gaming mode - PVP, that clearly works only when you have players vs. players. On the other hand you have a single player online mode that only allows one player in the scene. There's no way the two can rightly exist together if you allow people to choose when, where, how, and how often they flip between the two modes.

While I'm sure someone would like to fiddle around with mechanics that allow people to have their cake and eat it too, I can't see how that's going to be possible here. I also can't see a good reason that single player online mode needs to be integrated with pvp online modes in the game (including shardfalls), but that's not for me to decide. I'm only asking about my personal POT, a place that no one has to go to if they don't wish, and a place that I funded the development of by myself.

 

BDF, I think you are thinking that something like banning will work up and down the street. When it is really a one way street. Always has been. The moment people can start to throw out those who do not 'play' like the POT owner wants is the moment that we invite chaos. The only instance when banning makes sense is in a PVE town where people intend to disrupt events and are disrespectful, insulting to the people there. A ban then is like the townfolk throwing out a no good drifter or miscreant.

In a PVP town, will you see the SPO people anyway? Will you not know who the people are that cheese out during PVP? If you invite killing and then worry about disrespect or insults when you can just kill them? Or people not playing how you want them to play? *scratches head* This really makes no sense at all. people are killing one another for no reason other than it is allowed in game. You wanted it now you got it.

 

I'm not sure you understand what or why I'm asking for this.

If people were in SPO mode but couldn't use my vendors, couldn't scout my town, couldn't use housing, and couldn't EVER go into multiplayer mode to visit my town...that would be fine with me, they could be in SPO mode all they want as far as I'm concerned.

This has nothing to do with me wanting people to play a certain way, it has everything to do with the health of my POT. How much PVP is going on right now in-game? How many people are flagged for open pvp or routinely goto pvp areas? The answer is, not very many.

In UO, were the PVP servers under populated? History says yes in comparison to the risk free servers that blocked PVP.

My theory is that PVP only works when everyone is risking the same amount. That PVP doesn't work when their are easy alternatives or ways to reduce risk so that you're only in PVP "mode" when you're ready, when you want to be, or when you have a huge advantage. My theory is that if Rats Nest (my POT) is full pvp all the time and you can't hide in single player mode, it will be more populated and more interesting because the population will be at capacity.

Now I might be wrong and I might be completely overestimating my PVP brothers and sisters. Maybe all this time they have been saying how tough they are and how they want a pvp server and how they want non-consensual pvp, etc, etc... And maybe when they have a small part of the game that gives them that they will not show up, they will hide in other towns and only visit when they're ready, or when they want to, or when they have a huge advantage. Maybe my town will be a ghost town arena and not a living populated town. I'm ok with that, I'll risk that, because REAL pvp is that important to me.

I've done everything I can to make this happen, now it's up to the devs to support it.

 

That's not what I have been saying at all. I'm saying the two playing styles don't fit together, and that I totally support non-consensual pvp outside of Rats Nest. But if you're in Rats Nest, you should have no expectation of non-consensual pvp, that's why there's a message warning you before you enter. Single player online mode is a way to subvert that, and that's why it needs to be disabled - at least for Rats Nest, which has a goal of supporting real pvp - not the fake stuff, not the hide behind mechanics stuff, the real deal.

 

I'm not sure you are understanding what I am saying either.

That's the definition of SPO, they can do these things, the devs have been pretty clear on this.

That's way more to do with the level disparity for PvP. To change this it's either force full open PvP or remove leveling.

 

This sounds more and more like another veiled argument for full, open PVP than anything else. And that will not happen. I think there is a forum area for that discussion and this isn't it.

 

In single player online mode, you can do all the things I mentioned. Maybe that's why you're not seeing this, you didn't realize that?

That's way more to do with the level disparity for PvP. To change this it's either force full open PvP or remove leveling.[/QUOTE]
Well I agree that levels are a huge problem for pvp right now, I've stated this several times in other threads and in dev hang outs. But we have many examples of other games that have lower populations the more "hardcore" they are. So I doubt that levels is the sole reason for this - but I agree it's a significant one.

Now before you or someone else says, "but see, the other games have lower populations and that's that will happen to Rats Nest!" Understand that the other games don't allow players to hide in single player online mode. And we have an entire world that does, so I'm not trying to achieve a large population of pvp players server wide, just in my POT. And I at least from my perspective, I don't see how having more PVE rules is going to attract more PVP players (in my POT or across the rest of the server).

 

I'm not asking for full open pvp anywhere but inside my PVP POT. Nor is this a discussion just about PVP, it's a discussion about PVP POTs. The forum I've selected to have this discussion is correct, and the discussion is valid.

 

If you're talking about the level of effort to do one verses the other, I have no idea what would be harder or require more time. I assume they would both be fairly easy to accomplish.

 

Duke Lorimus, I already responded to this same exact text about an hour ago. Why are you posting this a second time?

 

To word what you are attempting to do differently. You are wanting open PvP done your way and not the way the rest of the game handles it. You don't want open PvP at all. - SotA's brand of open PvP.

All open PvP deals with the SPO issue.

So it boils down to the question, why should POTs have a different PvP. If that was your angle I could see where you are going. Asking for commands that allow for custom tailoring of the PvP in a POT.

That's not the way you are doing this though. It's more of a, I don't like SotA PvP and since I paid a lot of money for my POT then PvP should be my way.

It's not landing any traction.

 

Interesting.

Well, it's not my intention to say that. Let me try again.

I don't like SOTA PVP, it's pretty bad because of levels and some hopefully unfinished accountability mechanics that will come in future iterations. There's also the subject of getting "meaningful" pvp into the game, and that's more of a macro issue - but I digress. When it comes to my own personal PVP POT, there's a problem with single player online mode that needs fixed. Single player online mode allows players to avoid PVP in an area that is made ONLY for pvp. This is a problem game wide, but I can't control that or even hope to control that. Would I like it changed, yes. Do I think it will change, no.

What I can control is what I request to the developers to change in my POT, and that's what I'm doing. I feel I have very reasonable expectations as I'm the sole owner of the POT and players are not required to live or visit my POT, so the impact of these changes would be null to the community as a whole. This also doesn't appear to be a difficult change to make as the existing tech seems to already be in the game for various other scenes, though perhaps not exactly what I'm asking for.

As far as getting "traction" goes, I only care what the devs think. But because I assume they would want to see the other side of the argument, I posted here so they could see what the peanut gallery thought. I think that has been a wise choice on my part because I have yet to read a compelling argument against what I'm requesting. But maybe the devs have another point of view, we'll see.

 

If it was a general feature that Portalarium would have liked to have or have been planning to add then there would be very little argument.

But a specific extra optional feature that has to be developed solely for 3-4 scenes? That will cost Portalarium development time, effort and money for very little general use/benefit.
Thus I find it highly unlikely that they would consider something like that.

So while I see your use case I think that for any solution to be feasable you need to come up with a general principle with a general application instead.

There I think the suggestion that changing modes will bring you back to the spawn point would work nicely for such a general principle even though it doesn't fit your exact use case. But at least it is feasable/reasonable with a very small effort on Portalariums part.

This is where I see the problem with your request really. Since that is not how it works.
In order to switch the mode selection the player needs to log off and log on again. This is done for tech reasons for the social server etc communications.

So for instance when you get "deported to single player mode" in a POT (what some refer to as a ban which it really isn't) what really happens is that when you are in MPO and enter; the load screen will display a prompt saying you can't enter in MPO and you need to switch to SPO to enter. Then it boots you back to the overland map. After that you have to manually log off - log in to SPO to enter the scene.
Why that is like that is for tech reasons (and server load etc).
Which means that it would be difficult/costly to make a tech solution where someone in SPO, when entering a specific scene, would suddenly be transfered to MPO.
So if your feature request was implemented that is how it would work for your citizens.

So my advice to you would be to find some other general application which would still solve your perceived issue to some degree while still having some general benefit to the masses.

Best of luck.

 

@Spoon I guess the last part is partly wrong.
If you are in SPO and zone to somebody in MPO you end up in the MPO version of the scene. If you then go to a basment (e.g.) you get an SPO scene again.
So at least a part of what he is asking for is actually already existing.

 

As someone who plays mostly SPO I'm pretty darn sure this isn't allowed. I've never been able to /zone to anyone from SPO or visa versa.. nor have I ever heard of it being done.

 

Good post.

You bring up a good point about players that get evicted from their lots, and their stuff goes to a bank in the POT. However, this is a PVP POT, and so it's hard for me to say that all the open pvp no escape consensual violence that COULD occur while you live there, would be any worse than if you didn't live there. Think about it.

So I don't really see that as a problem for my town specifically. It's kind of how Rats Nest works. I would also be surprised if this was a major effort on the devs part to code. I mean, right now there is literally a button on the login screen that says Single Player mode or Multiplayer mode? So can't we just apply that to my POT so that it automatically pushes the player to zone into multiplayer mode?

 

You are right, I stand corrected there. But isn't it really when you invite them to party up?
Although you can see in the friends log what happens is that they log you off and then log you in again. But you are right in that it is automated.

 

I've seen it done, and heard of it being done.

I always put myself in /nozone so people outside of my group can't zone to me. That's a feature I wish I could just keep on permanently.

But I think I remember hearing months ago they were going to try to put a stop to some of that. It was definitely a problem though at one time.

 

Well that's begs the question.. as of how long ago? Not that it's particularly important but now I'm curious.

 

@Spoon
It is working.
I never investigated it further and I admit I only did it with people from my FL.
But that doesn't change the fact that at least a part of the mechanic is (or was, didn't do it since r21 I guess) there.