Poll: Time to Grind

I find the amount of time required to grind out levels an endless amount of boring clicks.

It's not so bad in the beginning, but once I get to the middle levels I just can't do it anymore. I have to stop and just do something else, anything else.

Because everyone has their own personal opinion about "grinding levels" I thought it would be interesting to see what types of words people would use to describe the system that we currently have. Note that I actually love the use based system, that's not what this is about. I'm asking people to identitfy the words they would use to describe the amount of time it takes someone to grind out character levels.

 

We're also seeing limited content (less opportunity to get XP) and regular wipes. If this is an online game they want people to play for years, you want a somewhat slow curve at the top.

 

Yes, I agree. We do want people to play for years.

But for some people (like me) it's not fun to play for hours let alone years. If the grind is not fun, who's going to play it? If I had a level 100 character that I didn't have to grind to get, yeah that would be fun! (for me) but I wouldn't expect anyone else to play the game if they had to be involved in "not fun" activities for months if not years to get to the point where they were having actual fun. The problem I see with the current grind is that the only way to have fun if you don't really like grinding is to buy an account from someone else that did all the grinding for you.

 

@Baron Drocis Fondorlatos,

Then the problem isn't the time involved in leveling, its that the gameplay feels too grindy?

 

Less XP opportunity doesn't alleviate the dull grind at all. Personally, I think having an XP requirement for skill based levelling a very stupid design choice. I understand it is an attempt to stop people from just macro levelling a skill, but it doesn't stop that and just makes it more tedious and confusing for those who are new to the system.

The tedious grind (especially on the gathering/crafting side) isn't what makes a game fun (or at least not to me). It seems the design choice is to make it very unfun to level up in hopes of limiting people from GM everything in the game.

 

It stops you from leveling forever on a Gustball alone, but it doesn't stop macro leveling. Plenty of people macro combat and get XP and skill gain. The taming and combat pet system has only made this easier.

 

I think they go hand in hand.

If you have two paths and one gets you where you want to be at a normal pace and the other path takes you around in circles for months, which one would you want to take? I think the time involved in leveling up is part of an arbitrary system that some people have mastered by min/maxing and other people are now forced to follow in their footsteps or else suffer the consequences of being bored out of their minds.

 

Well, I think as they further develop combat and crafting/harvesting, they can make them feel less grindy. The more skill involved in combat, the less grindy it will feel. And the less crafting and harvesting is about just double clicking over and over, the less grindy it will feel.

As I've said many times, the thing that makes grinding feel like grinding is that its mindless. The more that you're having fun when you do these activities, the less they'll be grindy.

 

I should add, skill / tactics. Because if there are some tactics involve, combat can be fun even if you aren't super-skilled, because you have to be on your feet, and think about what you're doing. Its also why I want to flatten the level curve a bit, and make it harder to lose to lower level monsters when you're high level. I don't want leveling up to make 90% of the game boring.

Some may disagree, but I also think when we have more mechanics like nutrition/hunger, it'll help alleviate the feel of the grind. That's because it'll break players out of a routine of doing the same things over and over again endlessly until their skill points go up. I've played survival RPGs and the pace is a lot better IMO.

 

You seem to be mixing your hate for levels with grinding.

You need exp to increase a skill. Not that much of it to get it to 4 glyphs or 50% of any given non stat innate.

You need levels to get bonus innates and HP + Focus added to your avatar.

I dont really pay attention to how long it takes me to level. I just work a skill at a time.

I don't know how to answer your poll.

 

There are better ways of stopping something like Gustball levelling. But I agree, it is a flawed system to stop a portion of player behavior that just gets ignored/offset by those wanting to ignore it.

The problem is, they aren't intending to stop making it grindy. Especially in regards to gathering/harvesting it is currently their intention to make it dull and uninteresting. There is some minor intent to make events that may do something to the gatherer (like damage), but per design there is nothing intended to minimize the grind feel because the devs don't feel it is annoying enough to warrant a redesign (it only takes seconds not minutes per node being the particular quote of DS I'm thinking of).

 

If we take the current system in short bursts, like 15 to 30 minutes, it's not too bad. It's even fun sometimes.

But when you have to go out and just kill the same things over and over again to get experience, that's when it becomes grindy. There's no reason we should have to do this. It's meaningless. But the way the game works, you have to have skills at like 70 something to compete in PVP or to solo effectively through 80% of the game. I don't see any indication that we're headed towards a change there.

I believe (until the devs say otherwise) that the WOW and EQ style of "grinding" is intended as a long term "incentive" to keep playing. It's easy content to make, a scene that has respawning mobs that you just stand around killing forever.

 

The more they move away from the killing endlessly respawning mobs model of typical MMOs, the less grindy it will feel, and the more fun it will be IMO. If you play a single-player RPG, you have to fight to level also, but it doesn't feel grindy, because the mobs don't respawn for you, and you just fight what you come across on your adventuring.

 

It can be very painful when you're just trying to level a couple skills you don't want so you can get something else.

 

We have no real way to gain XP right now, except to grind. I get it, I hate grinding too. But there is what, like 10 different monsters right now, and 4 "bosses", of course it gonna feel grindy. When the map is full of scenes, and there are true objectives to complete (not just delivering mail, or a small quest here and there), it should feel a lot less grindy.

At least that's what I'm hoping.

This is my first build since R14-ish and the 4x XP encourages it right now too, right now I'm just leveling away w/the intention of building a proper character on next wipe. This will cease too, upon launch. Even playing field, no 4x.

As for macro'ing and stuff that will always be there. People will figure out a way.

 

But we shouldn't design systems that make it easier, reward it, etc.

People called for skill based progression because they don't like grinding, but this only creates more grinding.

 

I love the use based system, but you're right it does create more grinding.

 

I don't grind much at all, knowing that my progress will be wiped pretty soon. I'm certain we'll enjoy the grind more when we know the results will stick with us.

 

The gathering grind is just plain awful and uninteresting, the combat grind is *bleep* numbingly boring and uninteresting. If it was rewarding I could stand it a little bit better, but a few scraps of gold coins and near worthless rusty swords, etc. ughhh...Leveling up skills just isn't fun. In most every other game I've played I could see my character getting stronger each level in skills, with Sota I can't tell much of a difference. I have to play another game or watch a movie while I'm out hunting so I don't get so bored I fall asleep. It should be so fun that I don't want to play something else or watch a movie as a distraction.

 

I really really hope so, but I just don't see it ever being something enjoyable. Currently the grind takes me out of the game to read forum posts or watch anime or movies while waiting for nodes to finish harvesting. I don't see that going away at all once we go live. If anything, I have a bad suspicion that the grind will be even worse than it currently is (doubly so with skill decay depending on how it is implemented).