Anyone else think the hate on COTOs is completely topsy turvy?

The rhetoric seems to be that non-COTO-buying players are at a disadvantage to add-on store COTO buyers, when it fact it seems to me the opposite is true. COTO buyers will look to sell COTOs for gold. The more COTOs in circulation, the lower the price (basic supply and demand).

As a non-paying player, the more people buy COTOs in the add-on store, the better deals I get. As of now, the current rate seems to be roughly 1600g/COTO, which means I get a 1900g discount on my taxes everytime I use a COTO instead of gold to pay rent. The more people buy COTOs, the more subsidized my rent is!

More add-on store COTO buyers and lower COTO prices also gives me a good deal on week-buff potions, cosmetic enhancements/fireworks and shelf-life-extending for my gear.

Considering that RL$->gold transactions will take place regardless and that i'd much rather have that money go to devs instead of gold farmers, why in the world are people hating on COTO buyers again?

 

I don't mind COTOs at all. The only part I'm leery of it using them for repairs, but even that isn't a deal-breaker for me.

What I do wish would happen tho, is that the Add-On Store would only sell COTOs, seasonal items, and multi-item packs. Everything else that can be bought directly from the Add-On Store should instead be moved into the game and purchased with COTOs. That way the premium currency is more in-world currency, rather than just another name for Add-On Store credits. They have made big strides toward this with the Obsidian Alchemists, Viking Merchant, and Elven Merchant, and with the Kobold Merchant comin gin R37, but there is still a LOT of Add-On Store exclusives.

 

I don't buy COTOs either, but I'm fairly certain we are all paying players, a fact that many, including Port, seem to forgot from time to time.

 

You're missing an important part in your economic equation there.
We'll keep your assumptions though, that most coto buyers buy cotos and sell them for IGG.

So now, more cotos are in the market, which push coto prices down for you when you buy them, so you save money. Right?
Except now, because you have people using a large influx of cotos to aquire IGG (or, more often, use cotos in place of IGG directly in trades, which means cotos directly inflate the monetary supply since the supply is now IGG + cotos), it means they can bid higher for goods and services, which drives the price up, meaning while you save on cotos, you end up paying more for other purchases.

This has a feedback effect:
As the monetary supply inflates, each gold is worth less. So the gold value of cotos will rise due to this inflation, which then means a larger amount of gold flows into the economy by every coto purchase.
The IGG rate going into the economy from hunting will stay stationary.
Meanwhile the coto rate, even though it stays stationary, due to inflation will add more and more igg-equivalent value to the economy as the inflation occurs.

The devs were right to attempt to limit the IGG flow rate to try to control inflation.
The problem is by encouraging cotos as a form of secondary currency, they have undone the economic effort of those controls, since this new monetary supply is unbounded.

 

Potentially unbounded, but its still capped at how many COTOs players are buying (plus the minuscule number that are dropping in-game). I'm not convinced that the number is all that high. I havn't noticed a large upswing in the funding numbers compared to what they were getting just with new pledges, although I'm not tracking that as closely as some others.

 

Good points Umuri, I haven't done a super in-depth analysis

One thing I wonder though about gold being worth less if there's more COTOs since it'll be used as an alternate currency. Isn't that only true if COTOs stay valuable?

For example, if everyone except me had 100,000 COTOs in their bank tomorrow, the COTO->gold rate would be abysmal, so COTOs couldnt be used as a secondary currency. Well, they could, but their value would be so worthless compared to gold that it wouldnt be much of a currency at all.

However, they would still be useful for dye/cosmetic stuff, rent, pots and repairs. As a non-coto buying-player, that means I get access to all those things dirt cheap (since COTOs would sell for a ridiculously low amount of gold) and gold value isnt affected at all : if anything, it's worth more because everybody wants gold, not COTOs.

In short, except for their few, specific uses, COTOs have value only so far as players with gold are willing to buy them. Seems to me the non-coto buyer wins out the more COTOs are in circulation, but maybe I missed something, i'm no economist

 

Well... Every other weeks we gotta find something to argue about. Last week it was COTOs for repair and the 25% xp bonus. Who knows what will come next?

 

I guess no one told you that cotos are "consumable" items... You said it in your post: Tax payments, Potion purchases, and Gear repair all consume cotos... Oh, and Hairstyle changes cost 10... It's a great way to charge a "subscription" fee, without charging a subscription fee, AND get players to shift gold from one player to another... We all know gold is consumable...

 

As long as $3500 taxes can be paid with a COTO, the value of the COTO will tend towards $3500. I wish they would allow us the option of using a COTO or $3500 when repairing durability on an item. The crafting station and the rent usage of COTO remove them from circulation. Since the only source of new COTO is the store or extremely rare drops odds are that the drops will remain quite rare and cash will flow into the store. Paying rent with gold or COTO is reasonable, but the crafting system drain of COTO from circulation is not right considering real money is spent to renew the supply. I am a pessimist by nature and would be quite surprised if the COTO drop is adjusted to the COTO usage at the crafting station, rent, and NPC purchases. But since I made a New Year's resolution to be more positive, I can't wait for the COTO flood to start in loot drops. If the drops are not adjusted properly then the RIGHT thing to do is to make all usage of COTO be optional (COTO or gold) and never COTO only.

 

If everybody prefer to buy coto, yes we would have a coto flood. But I would think there are more players who prefer to not spend in game in they can earn in game.

Do you know coto used to be 1000g-1100g per coto before all the new coto usage?

Current low coto price will not persist. As free coto that's come with bundle and pledges dwindle, add on coto will be the only supply. And will cause coto price to go up more and more.
Chris himself implied that coto price could rise to more then 3500g implicit tax value. That would stop people from using coto as taxes.

As of now, players prefer to hold in game value in coto then gold. Reason being gold prices has been falling against coto and dollar. With all else being equal, you be able to buy less and less in game with the same amount of gold. The influx of the alternative currency is probably the reason behind this hyperinflation.

 

I just want to point out, that a lot of people do not seem to remember that there are 500+ cotos that flow in to the economy every release from the bug reward initiative.

You know full well the new coto price has almost nothing to do with the new coto usage, and had to do with a few specific people using a LOT of out of game currency to force a price change by cornering the market and actively assaulting other vendors to buy them out at a loss until they folded to the new price. Whether that was as an attempt to inflate the value of their own holdings (lose 1 mil to gain 10 mil in apparent value), or was speculation on the new usage is up for debate. But the price rise was not natural and was forced

The bulk of the hyperinflation came from the unresolved control point exploit, which way too many people abused. It actually outpaced the coto inflation for almost an entire release, which quite frankly shouldn't happen.

 

It maybe unnatural to you. But it could be just market mechanism. Some people called it arbitrage. To give you an example. Buying coto in add on cost $85 per 100. Market is always correct, if you think otherwise or anyone think otherwise. They can easily buy coto from add on and sell the market down.

When coto was lower, and knowing coto is going demand. And if you can buy gold at $35 per 100k gold. Every dollar net you 2857 gold giving you more then 2 coto at the old coto prices. Would it make sense for some players to buy gold and purchase in game coto?

The way I look at it. It take more then 1 player to move the entire market. They are a few players making run at the coto vendors.

I would safely say we will see at least 2500g per coto by December.

 

Thanks Umuri... many of us do realise what is going on...

Are you guys sure this is "just a game" ?

 

OOPS somehow I addended your post with my own. Sorry (edit)

 

... lot of these posts seem to ignore the fact cotos drop aswell based upon total cotos in game.

What about us who repair stricly with dropped cotos and arnt having a problem doing even that? lol

 

Please tell me where you are getting them. I am adv lvl 80, GM mining, mine all my own ore and make my own gear. In all that time I have never gotten a gold COTO and only one iron. I do all my hunting in 5 skull areas and so on. I agree that they said they will adjust the drops, but they also said they would fix the chat UI about three years ago. We really have not had to repair anything with COTO yet, as I imagine most people have not lost their durabilty to that extent since R-36, so I guess you are right. I have been doing OK too since I have not had to use one yet.

 

Im also Gm mining.
You can repair with ANY coto.. not just gold.

Ive gotten 2 or 3 irons from spectral iron mining. got 1 meteoric off an elf in a 4 skull? pretty sure i got one in a pass..

I know guildy pulled 2 bronze in a few days on copper nodes in random zones.

They do drop.. tho not as much as they should.. but enough ive only ever used cotos i bought off players for rent.. and dropped ones for repair. and that drop rate is adjusted with how many are in game apparently.

That all being said.. spend 2k.. buy a gold.
Let the market dry up a bit.. just means more will drop off mobs and nodes.

I run a +9 bow for everything. thats 100 max dura.
If someones running something under 50 max at full health.. they SHOULD be struggling to keep it repaired. thats just bad equipment management.

All in all, just grabben basic wood while fsrming w.e ..by time i need to max repair a 2nd time.. ill have numerous back up bows already around same level.. and ifcu dont.. ( i did gold example in othrr thread ) .. ill be up over 100k in raw gold .. and will purchase a new one (5-10k bow )

 

thats a drop in the ocean. Few thousand coto change go tru my hands a month. Most go into rental. I have played since r32, zero went through my hands. The luckiest I know got 1 a week. Port really have to really ramp up the coto drop rate to be anything meaningful.

 

So 5 non gold coto since r32 is nothing to shout about.

 

How much u spend on rent has nothing to do with what i said.
How often do you need to repair ? if its that often.. you would be getting more drop chance.

So 5 coins for 5 max repairs .. how long your gear last? mine last long enough i seem to always have a dropped coin on repair.. and only getting easier.
And its more like 5 coins in 6 weeks. ( or even longer w.e still less then needed )when i started purely 5 skull.

Ill even go so far as saying considering the mass flooding early on due to pledge rewards.. that is too much of a drop.
I shouldnt have gotten ANY drops.. considering golds were s over populated they were 1k each.

Drop is only going to increase.