Any news on phasing?

There are great ideas all the time from a lot of people to improve the story(telling). I really appreciated also your feedback after playing the whole story!
It's really important for the success of the storypart, that a lot of people will do it after the story reset next release and provide good feedback
I also started by making new characters and giving feedback to unpolished parts until we enter the outskirts.

Vyrin started an important thread therefore

By the way: you're right - it's not the mainpoint to have two NPC'S making a hug to each other or to me as the Avatar
Well, this was an idea because of the former behavior showing the backflip

There are two important points, if we are talking about a good book/story:
1. How are we embedded in the whole story - what kind of decisions can we really make and what changes on our path furthermore?
I asked about such behavior in a few threads: What could happen, if we gave an beggar more as a few coins? Are all decisions saved in a game matrix to have more influence for later questparts?
Maybe later in Episode 2? What could it mean to us for Episode 3, too, for example:
save a little girl or first choosing Samael or the other guy or if we decie not to kill Min Liang Tan (if we would only had a choice!) ... ?

2. How is the story told around us: so to SEE a hug of two united persons would be a great part of the story: a small happy end from a beginning nightmare in Solace Bridge.
Not a sort of "open end feeling" ...
That's also a really important part of each book. Not only how the main character is acting, but the storytelling around him/her

I think Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit tells us a lot of both parts
And the question of a great story(telling) isn't primary a question of offline/online mode.

 

But SotA is not a multiplayer game only. It also has an offline mode and it is described as a game with a single-player narrative. So if I hear "single-player narrative" I think about the narrative of single-player games - like Divinity.

Why would they use such a description if they would not compare the narrative, e.g. how the story is told, how the Quests play out, to a single-player game?

Also what is the purpose of the offline mode if it won't offer a single-player game experience? No one needs an offline MMORPG.

 

Yes, the tools (technology) used to tell a story are important. And sure the visual cues can add to that experience. But does anyone think that the movie adaptation of Ready Player One will be better than the book? I can't imagine a scenario where that will be true.

My son loves to watch Pixar movies, but what he enjoys the most is watching the directors behind the scenes commentary. And what Pixar always says is that the most important parts of their movies are "the story". They can make all the animations they want, all the sounds, all the music, all the cute talking animals, it doesn't matter if the story is not the focus. So does the mother and daughter hugging tell the story better than a backflip? Sure it does. But does the absence of the hug tell less of a story? If you're looking for a 3rd person experience then maybe it does. But if you're looking for a game where your decisions matter and your 1st person account is evolving the story, then it's probably not as important.

Don't get me wrong, I think having the hug vs. not is good. But it's not like if one game has that and another doesn't it's better story telling. That's not true. The story can still be conveyed expertly without tons of animation, voice acting, theatrical music, etc...

 

Just out of curiosity, how would a quest like the one with Charlotte play out in the first person narrative you propose.

Also it is not only about Charlotte and her mother hugging themselves it is also about the murderer getting caught and be thrown into jail or be hanged. Or how about NPCs reacting to a siege right in front of their gates. The enemy learning from their failures and not starting the same sieges again and again in the exact same manner etc.

 

I agree that would be inappropriate because Divinity never claimed to want to offer a multiplayer MMO-like experience.

BUT from the get go, Shroud DID say that they wanted to offer a single player RPG experience. I can offer quotes from the developers if you'd like. Shroud intentionally stepped into the single player RPG world themselves. It wasn't LD who forced the comparison.

 

Well, as you and a lot of us told in a lot of threads:
That's the whole point And that's something we are missing along the paths ...

The way to let us dive into a story is important.
Short really simple examples, why this isn't - yet:
1. In the starting scenes are still the choices for a "mage" or "Ranger" ---> which throws the meaning of our choices in the start sequence with the Oracle away
The starting skillpoints are different! It should be the same, equal which path we are starting.
2. With the decision for a path (Love, Truth, Courage) is connected a choice we have to do for a special weapon! (Love = Ranger = Bow!)
I made a few threads about this:
3 Answers for our destiny ... Shouldn't they have a meaning to us and the game?
Unbalanced Abilities/Skills for NEW Players starting main path

3. Story parts not told to the end or ending abrupt, simple example is the rescue of Charlotte. [With or without hug ]
4. Talking to a npc and following the story is disturbed with an upcoming "Player ... is online/offline".
The more "technical" things come along, while doing/reading the story, takes a lot of our story feeling away.
THIS happened at the main point, as I was at the Oracle in Britain and received my Shroud...
Well, my storyfeeling was gone in a few seconds ...

... to be continued by all the great feedback, you and all others gave and hopefully will give after the storyreset

 

How is that simply a 3rd person experience? Seeing a mother and daughter reunited would make ME feel great. Tangible results are always more impactful to ME than intangible. Other peoples actions and interactions create a first person experience for me. Again, this is too strong a bifurcation you are trying to make!

 

There are probably a million ways it could go. But how about this one:

1. Instead of trying to build more tech into the game so that NPC's can hug each other. We embrace our limitations and work on the story being told in a meaningful and effective way.
2. Instead of returning Charlotte to her mother directly. We can drop her off somewhere. That means we never "see" her reunion with her mother.
3. But we can "hear" about her reunion with her mother. And perhaps others might hear about that too.
4. Perhaps other NPC's might think that's important. You might run into a Blacksmith where all you wanted to do was buy a few repair kits but instead the blacksmith says "I heard about what you did for little, Charlotte. That means a lot around here. Why don't you take that on the house?"
5. Perhaps towards the middle of the game there would be an important NPC (like Arebella) who recaps some of your good deeds as an example of how your decisions had a positive impact on the world? Or perhaps if you didn't help Charlotte she would recount this as an example of the dark path you were going down.
6. Perhaps by not helping Charlotte, this counted towards unlocking a side quest that would allow you to meet a darker version of Arebella that would appreciate your decisions more.

The point is that the story narrative is NOT about the NPC's it's about you. The interactions are NOT a tv set for you to view as you move from one scene to the other but instead the NPC's are a reflection of YOUR DEEDS as YOU create a story that will only be told for YOU.

@Lum the Mad This is how I hope you guys will change the current quests into being more of a 1st person narrative and less of a 3rd person site seeing tour.

 

Maybe I'm giving it too much credit, but it doesn't *feel* that way. It feels like a living, breathing story.

If the Shroud devs are not going to implement any sort of phasing before "launch" that would be good to know. We would be able to make suggestions on how to make the story flow or feel more complete without those cues.

E: Just like you suggest above

 

I can’t agree that a single player game, online or offline, needs to be any different than the rest of the modes.

The problem is more based in the NPC quest giver and the other NPCs involved in the plot are static. They need schedules and those schedules should include the quest paths.

 

I think there is a lot inside we can use to enrich the story(telling)

And there are things, we don't need, while we try to live and follow the story ...

 

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't it be both-and? Both a compelling story and compelling visuals are more impactful from a FIRST-PERSON PERSPECTIVE than either alone.

But I want you to know that even with as good as the reviews are for DOS2, it has limitations in visuals. A lot of times, especially when you talk to companions, it will say they are doing something that isn't reflected visually. While I appreciate the narration, having it reinforced by the visual is more impactful. Let's say a character wants to show me their scar as part of explaining a fight. It may be simple, but if the visual shows them pulling up their sleve and you see an actual scar, it simply is more impactful from a first-person perspective. I may be more motivated to find the bastard who scarred them. But that is the reality of having limited resources. Narrative is far cheaper to implement than visuals - so more goes into it in most games. And with Shroud, it's very costly to do the visuals because of the added requirement of phasing.

 

This is of course an interesting possibility.
But just coincidentally and sometimes logically we would have to see a few things happening.
Let's take the murder quest as an example. Even if we did just turn in the evidence and hear about the murderer being caught, the NPC would have to be removed from the game or we should see him hang or visit him in jail.

Also just hearing about the consequences all of the time would not have such a feeling of satisfaction. Sometimes it is OK but always? Sometimes I want to drag the evil guy to the jail or kill him or see a vampire drinking the blood of some innocent victim...

 

Competing interests. Why can't we have voice acting?

I totally agree that if we had the budget, time, and resources to make a Star Citizen like solo player RPG experience then we should've done that. But I don't believe that's the case. I think we're limited. I think phasing is not going to happen unless they do it really poorly. And I think that's OK, I think we can tell a better story if we are not focused on poor technology decisions.

It's like the Path of Courage where the NPC's are walking around talking to you in the King's house (whatever it was called). That was soooooooo horrible. It only distracts from the story. So why are we trying to make SOTA into something it can't be? Why are we wasting so much time providing feedback (like in the OP) where our expectations are actually dangerous to telling a good story? I wish we'd stop doing that.

 

What sucks is they DID have the budget, time, and resources to make an Ultima 7-like solo RPG experience. They should've done that.

 

Right, limitations may result in limited satisfaction. We run that risk.

But if the story is solid, I would argue that the delivery mechanism is almost irrelevant. Which is why people still read books.

In the case of a murderer being caught, yes, truly it would be more satisfying to have a full VR experience where you put your hands on them, dragged them to jail while they failed about. The towns people cheered you on, and little jimmy who you saved from a fire earlier gave you a wink of adoring respect. But again, we're limited.

So the trick would be not to put the murder out somewhere in the first place. The trick would be to only show the murder once he/she was caught.

 

So do you think they should scrap the single player? I can imagine having a story not reinforced with say phasing if it is in the context of a multiplayer game, but not single player. Do our expectations for single player render it impossible as things stand now?

This isn't a question just for BDF but I guess everyone.

 

Heck there have to be some, or it would just be a text adventure! Hello Eamon and Zork!

We don't know if SotA is not going to do phasing... that's actually the title of the thread. What's the news? Advocating for phasing is just fine. But it's up to the devs to make the decision as to what they can do. Everyone gets that. Feedback is not dangerous to telling a good story. The devs have enough experience sorting through feedback... if it was dangerous, they should have shut it down a long time ago. Expectations about this are NO DIFFERENT than people asking about any other aspect of the game from PvP to Crafting to you name it.

 

What sucks is that people act like they're not making the game they promised.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0?ref=nav_search

Notice how Ultima Online and Multi-Player are both part of the original focus of this game? As much as you guys want and care about single player features, I can about muti-player features. We're all in this same boat together, and it really sucks when people say things that divide us over something that never was and never will be. The game is more than just single player, that's what you paid for.

 

Can I ask a simple question: how often does Lord Darkmoon try to counter your posts on feedback on multiplayer features of the game? Is this a back-and-forth? A post by LD doesn't need to trigger a gigantic single player/multi-player rift.