Any news on phasing?

What @Lord British has to say about long-term effects is all well and good, but what about the immediate effects? IRL if I save someone's kid from a fire I would expect to see effects of that (you know, like their kid being running around playing, as opposed to a new grave). That type of immediate consequence is pretty important, and lacking.

 

@Berek
I think this thread is already due for a cleaning.

 

@Berek
I disagree, this thread is a discussion about one of the selling points for SotA. The fact that some players try to bring other elements (and why these have been treated equally poor) into the thread is not going off topic.
Deletion or closing rather would proof that there is no official interest in such critical discussions. If you feel there is risk of derailing the best way to bring it back would be by explanation from a developer. Which answers @Lord_Darkmoon’s original question - “any news in phasing”?

 

Personally, there are too many good points raised by both sides for this thread to be closed down. As a metaphor, if the body is whole but a limb has gangrene then you amputate the limb. You don't amputate the head.

 

Yes, you give it a "cleaning".

 

The main discussion on the last posts was between @Vyrin and @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos and while they disagree I don't think either one asked for moderation. To me I did not find a single post using abusive or derogatory words or anything that would warrant moderation.
I'll leave it to the moderator to see what is in line with the rules - I made my point that this type of discussion and exchange needs to be possible and uncensored. No need to further stray from the original question: "Any news on Phasing"? THIS is the item that should be answered and looked into.

 

Maybe I just misread some things.

[edit] Actually, the posts I was referring to were already removed or self moderated.

 

I don't think BDF has made any personal attack, he's just been debating arguments passionately. If I've made a personal attack, I accept moderation, but I've tried to stay focused on arguments as well.

I'm ready to get back to talking about phasing and the legitimate question in the OP.

 

On a related topic, I've been thinking about why ESO/TESO has been having problems with phasing. From what I know (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) ESO cities are the equivalent of NPC cities in SOTA where NPC homes are cheek with player homes and quests are embedded in the fabric of the city itself.

There are no instanced POTS where players are free from the side effects of completed quests on the phasing status of individual players. Hence, the universal problem in ESO in having guild meets or even just having a get together with friends.

This is probably why housing in ESO is instanced. Entering any house or guild house insulates you from the quest phasing effects outside on the city streets making get-togethers less crazy to accomplish.

 

Dear Avatars, Dear Developers,

may be I am wrong with, so please correct me, if I am

When played WOW, there were a lot of moments, things changed after a quest was done.

As I played the path of love the first time, I entered Ardoris, visited Khasi and Siranto and was sent to Min Liang Tan.
He told me, he wants to see me in the Tower of Shuttered Eyes.
After I defeated him and went back to Ardoris, who was there? Right: Min Liang ...
Well, a few players gave this as a bug to the Developers. And it was cleared

Now, after defeating him, Min Liang isn't there anymore. That's what I saw last time I played it.

From this point the game works for both systems, online and offline.
If I receive a quest and solve it, and afer that the world changes, it is ok. Story goes on.
For the hundred other Avatars Min Liang is still there, until they made that part, too.

Because of this experience, I didn't thought about any problems to have changed surroundings, like location or persons, while doing the story part.

I would have the same effect, equal if I play offline or online.

If I am not right with what I guess - please correct me
I just want to understand what we are talking about - and why!

So next: what would be the positive effect of phasing for our game play?
I would appreciate everything, what makes our adventure more intersting, if there were possibilities!

And for this, phasing should be discussed - not only for people like me, not knowing exactly what it means to the gameplay

I am very thankful for each -short- explanation about the positve - and may be some negative, too - aspects!
And I assume - a lot of others would appreciate this, too ...

 

Thanks everyone for keeping on topic (for the most part). Posts that were not on topic were removed. If I missed any, let me know. Also, personal arguments were removed... if you can't find your post, this is your hint.

 

I unfortunately don't have time to fully read through six pages of debate, so please excuse me if something like this has been stated already:

From a number of quests and dialog thus far in-game, I seem to remember hearing that my player character, Rennik Brightarrow, is not THE Avatar, but AN Avatar. Therefore, we all have a part to play in affecting the world.

While I appreciate the fact that SotA is really more of an MMO than Portalarium would like to admit, there are most definitely ways to advance a narrative that could help the player feel like the choices made actually affect something in the world. @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos made a number of good suggestions in this list:

On point #5 and #6, I can't help but think that the results of our questing— good or bad— should influence our virtue level, and thus our standing with the Oracle. How we choose to advance a quest could increase or decrease our standing in the Truth, Love, or Courage virtues. Much like the old UO, what what we did cause a gain or loss of fame and karma. This type of mechanic could easily affect how NPCs interact with us.

These choices that we make in advancing our personal narrative might take us through certain scenes/zones to fight through... but perhaps enter an instanced mission for the final interaction where the decisions would then branch into a different direction than others. This way, only WE are directly affected, and any interaction and dialog is ours alone. City of Heroes did a lot of this: talk to contact A, go on this mission: defeat the enemy, go back to contact A to continue that storyline... OR, if you spare the enemy's life, you'll be sent to contact B to advance a different narrative. There are still plenty of mission that take place within the greater sandbox with all the other players... but these types of "Choose Your Adventure" branching narratives could allow us to have a bit of both worlds.

 

Um, think about it brother... everyone that played the Ultimas were the avatar as they roleplayed, and... they roleplayed me

I am still here btw in UO and SotA, I'm still the pain in the arse I always was

I am that particular person... am I special or better than anyone ? Nope !

But I have alot of experience that would benefit a ton of many people Yet now I'm just an ant in the colony... not that I mind its nice to live peace after going through the abyss one too many times.

Nobody cares about the stranger anymore... I'm outdated, obsolete... and a conundrum

 

Thats funny the oracle seems to think I'm the worse ******* that ever lived since day 1... it does not understand anything I tell it so I even wonder why it bothers to reply, it just looks like it cares, but it doesn't... it look intelligent, but it isn't... it...

I made that point already... lol

 

Outdated? Obsolete? I don't think so

 

Haha just sat down at the computer after a wonderful dinner to this

Well thank you... I aim to become the perfect gentleman, and satisfy myself with little things in life.

 

I think world consequence is a great idea for single player, for multiplayer if we need to feel like we have an impact on the world then things get too complicated technology wise and is kind of out of reach for now, its doable but a maaassiiiive undertaking.

I'll agree there are more pressing matters, like actual immersive mechanics specific to single player

 

But then why do we get a story that seems to be more suited for a single-player game? Why do we have to do quests that beg for consequences yet we don't get them? Why is everyone rescuing the child and killing the bandit leader? Why is everyone doing the exact same things?

I read a thread on reddit about the things people hate most in a MMORPG and one of the things is that there are always stories that presume the player is the hero whereas he simply cannot be the hero because everyone is the hero. Richard Garriott once said that he found a new way to tell a story in a multiplayer game. Yet what we got is the same storytelling all of the other themepark MMOs use. I am the hero who rescues the child when everyone is the hero who rescues the same child. This was no fun the first time this came up and it is even less fun now.

 

Good questions but I seriously doubt we will get any answers. 117 messages and moderation by Berek, but no dev statement on Phasing. So I guess we have to trust into the vague statements that they will look into quests. As Phasing would be a major improvement over the existing situation and is not mentioned in the “10 things before launch” or “future wishlist aka 2 year plan” I personally don’t think it’s on priority or will come in Ep1.
Pointless to discuss.

 

Ok, so let's dig into this a little deeper now that there's room to actually have the discussion as to why these questions are important, including phasing.

LD, as you said, RG reached out to Tracy Hickman to figure this out - the actual quote is below.

CAVEAT: This is from a video in 2013. Although it's a vision, the game has shifted quite a bit as anything does over the course of four years. I just provide this so people know where the original expectation comes from. The quotes are not a binding contract in any way.

RG:

"So you now you get into the definition of the term "avatar". So as some people maybe know I used the word avatar in Ultima 4. It was to describe the -- well first of all the Hindu word means "the incarnation of a belief or philosophy usually a deity on Earth in physical form". And that's what I liked this being your avatar, well first of all, the character you play is your avatar, no matter how many people you are. Just like in the movie Avatar is now become the generic term for your projection into another body in another reality or another purpose.
So depending if you use the little letter 'a' or the capital letter 'A' for avatar the story is somewhat different. The story, part of the whole point of me needing to reach out to someone with the skills that Tracy has was I because I wanted to tell a multiplayer story. I wanted to tell a story that was not about, I'm the Avatar with a capital A and you're not. Because of that course means it has to be a solo player game and we have to have blinders one and ignore the fact that he thinks he's playing the same story if we see each other.
We've created a new story. This new story is, everyone has a role to play, and while we can't tell you about "winning" this game and how and why that may transpire either similarly or profoundly differently for every player that plays it, that's the challenge we wanted to undertake. So fear not that is exactly what we're doing. So I don't know if Tracy you want to allude to a little bit about how we're telling a multiplayer story."

And Tracy:

"Yeah actually the mechanics of that are pretty exciting. In story terms rather than game terms, because I think story terms are more easily recognized. Is there more than one avatar in the world? Absolutely. There are many avatars in the world. And avatars returning to the world in many places here are, is seen as an invasion. It is, and an unwelcome one. Things seem to be going pretty well without them, thank you very much.
Is there an avatar with a capital A, is there a destined one here to some great purpose? Yes, yes there is, and is he among the avatars, is she among the avatars? Yes, I believe that they are. But how that is determined in the course of our game and the course of our story and is all part of the structure of the story that we're trying to tell. So is there a valid reason why there are so many avatars in the world? Absolutely. Is that seen as a good thing?
Absolutely not, at least not to the local inhabitants that are here and who are used to the power structures and societies that they've developed on their own, no thanks to the avatar thank you very much. So it actually is a wonderful incorporation of both story and game over an epic period of play and time. So I guess the answer to that is yes, there is a very good reason why there are so many avatars who are here. Not only does it not break the story, it is an integral part of the story. And is there a destiny for an avatar? Absolutely. Absolutely. We just can't tell you about it."

No need to provide a link - this is the only salient part of the discussion. Nor am I going to make it easy for people to go back and quote things from 4 years ago to stir up trouble.

So a few things we can take from this:

- It sounds like Richard and Tracy did have a vision for how they would tell a story that didn't rely on suspending disbelief that everyone is the capital-A avatar. It seems there was actually a point for multiple avatars.
- There is no indication that game mechanics were needed to tell this story. The devs have never even hinted that mechanics were important to telling it. As Tracy says there is supposed to be a reason for all the avatars, and it doesn't "break the story".
- If they decided to stick to the original vision they established, many of us don't feel like it comes through in the story that's actually in the game. Key: PLAY THE STORY AND PROVIDE THAT FEEDBACK. So little actual feedback on the story still and I've been begging for it.
- SotA is five episodes, so the full story won't be resolved in the first chapter. However, I think there needs to be enough indication in the first episode as to how there is some sort of a multiplayer story. Right now, I don't think anyone who has provided feedback feels this has been accomplished.
- Unless Richard and Tracy were lying (which would be a ludicrous assumption), they already have an idea for how to tell the story. So the key is this... we can talk about mechanics and ask questions, but we need to GET IN AND PLAY THE STORY. Let them know whether it seems to fit this initial vision, and then let them work to tell the story better. They don't need ideas if they already have them! The key is to point out whether you as a player get their vision from actually playing the game.
- Side quests are one thing, but the main story has to fulfill the vision first and foremost - so again, PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON THE STORY.

Asking about phasing is a legitimate question and it can help any story as a mechanic, but I don't think it gets to the heart of what's going on with the story in SotA.

So, one more time, please, everyone, PLAY THE STORY AND PROVIDE YOUR FEEDBACK. I hope I made that clear enough.. haha