Ramble on about: Clarity and why bugs persist(Bullet points in post 2)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Doctorface, Nov 3, 2018.

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  1. Doctorface

    Doctorface Avatar

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    Hey everyone, Yordic here again to talk at you about something that should be fixed using tech that already exists! Might be a bit of a short one this week but that doesn't make it any less important. Not that anything I say is important beyond the opinions of a madman on the internet.

    Today's ramble is also going to be a potential...issue. It may come off as accusatory or ignorant but rest assured that the meaning and intent behind it is purely for the benefit of this game we have all come to love despite it's flaws. I want to be as up front with that as possible because boy do I have a lot to say about clarity.

    Lets go back,shall we, to a release looooooong ago wherein a massive issue was rectified with the combo system. A time where swords reigned supreme as the weapon of choice for anyone who wanted to seriously play the game. To when the creatures and people of Novia and the Vale feared the name 'sawblade sweep' . Or was it hamstring? Well it was one of those things.

    Before this time there arose a small bug in the code, that when it was used the combo in question would dole out MASSIVE DAMAGE. It was caused by a dot effect issuing five times all at once and could decimate foes in an instant. This bug persisted for an incredibly long time (at least four releases by my admittedly vague memory) and was only rectified when someone complained that blade wielders were insanely overpowered. The game feels much more balanced now by comparison (though rangers are still a pain in the keister and have several unfair advantages but that's a ramble for another day). This was the event that got me thinking about a lot of things in the game that seemed to be broken that I had written off as merely something inherent in the game world.

    The point is, dear readers, that there is a LOT of ambiguity in shroud of the avatar, mostly by design, that can lead to severe confusion on the part of even veteran players. Words like 'may' and 'some' are prevalent in our skills and combos. Take for instance the spell purify which has the text of 'Clear some negative status effects' and nothing more for description. Now what does this mean? Does it mean it will clear some of the negative status effects you have on you now? Does it only clear certain status effects? Which ones?

    This is a spell, people, it was created by some mage in the days of old who found a way to weave the inherent energy of the world using a combination of will and mental prowess to benefit the body of it's caster. He would have run extensive testing on this spell and figured out what it was before writing it down. beyond that it is a spell that is very simple to cast, not even requiring a specialized teacher to learn it from. This tells me that it's something that someone would be able to cast in a number of scenarios throughout the history of Novia. It makes no sense that that is all we know about the spell.

    These little lapses in clarity can lead to huge problems. If we as players don't know what the things we are doing are supposed to do how do we know if they are broken? The spell could be working perfectly fine and because it's so vague it could be bugged for months and months without anyone reporting it beyond complaining about it to friends. I can understand things being vague so there are things to learn in the world but this is ridiculous.

    Beyond that lies the problem of the QA server. I see the posts about there being a new version of the QA server up and how to get in but beyond that it's always been fairly vague, insisting we go in and play like normal in order to make sure the game is running well. This contributes to buggy releases and patching like there is no tomorrow which I am sure puts undue stress on the already pressured dev team. The QA was built in order to stop them from having internal testing teams but doesn't seem to be being treated like a test build. Why isn't there a list of changes in the notes leading up to the build as well as potential problem areas that need to be worked with? Is it locked in the Dev+ forum which I don't have access to because I don't really have the income to dump a few hundred dollars on to get into?

    It's not even like there is much incentive for the average player to dive into the QA, what with the QA incentives being made into a raffle and the QA having no bearing on the release version of the game. Opening it to the public was a great step but it's not being used to it's full potential and that is just criminal with such an incredible game as this one can be. Give us more direction, use us as your testers like we are supposed to be! Don't just post 'new build on QA' don't just have the QA server up for a week before release and hope we stumble onto some of the issues tampering with the fundamentals of the world tend to bring around. Give us a target and we will take it down, we are GAMERS, it's what we DO.

    Moreso, the QA server should be a seperate space so that we don't have to delete our current game in order to play on it. This might be the case for the people using the launcher but for us steam users it's kind of a hurdle. I don't think there is anything on port's side that can be done with it but it would still be nice.

    Beyond all that I think the QA server should be open from the moment the development on the new build is started, patch it weekly with features that you work on and give us pointers on what you did that you might need more Intel on. Will people use that info to affect their real game? Yeah probably, but no more than they already do with that one week.

    This ramble was NOT shorter than the average one at ALL. What the hell was I even thinking? Oh well. The point is Clarity has been an issue for ages and the only solution is to just be more clear. I can understand that internal development probably consists of saying the same things over and over and over again and when it comes to someone who isn't on the payroll it's easy to write off that we need to hear that stuff again. We may not be on the pay roll but those of us buying the game and buying the store items and pumping hours and hours and hours into the game on a weekly basis kind of ARE the payroll.

    This game is full of incredibly passionate people and I am one of them and damnit I wanna make this game better because it means SO DAMN MUCH to me. Shroud has given me things I could NEVER get on my own. It has been the catalyst in making me a better person than I was two years ago when I started. I went from maybe 50 followers on twitch to over 450 in two years BECAUSE of shroud and has introduced me to people I wish I had known years ago when I was a little ball of rage and hate and given me so many wonderful opportunities like turning my favorite past time into a means of income. Even when I left and stayed away from it for MONTHS I kept thinking of shroud and wondering how everything was going. It stayed installed and updated even when it was untouched.

    Shut up I'm not crying.

    All emotional spouting aside Maybe take a clarity pass over the games skills, give us a way to find out more information on the different skills in the game. Give the skill masters a text prompt that goes into detail about the skill when you say the name of the skill that says what it will and won't do. That way we can have a way to seek out information for use in testing on our own. Also either remove smelling salts or give them a friggin' use. They suck. Yordic out.
     
  2. Doctorface

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    Post two Yordic here. That guy needs some help,like seriously. He was crying, tho. Anyway here we go.

    Problem-Clarity is an issue, too many words like 'some' and 'may'.

    Proposed solution- Clarity pass on the game, add text option to master trainers that gives in-depth information on the skill in question when you say the name of the skill to them.

    Problem- QA seems completely worthless as a testing ground. Isn't open long enough to really get any actionable data. Not enough information given to source problematic code and features.

    Proposed solutions: Open the QA server full time, do weekly passes on the content that is on it to create more stable builds as you go. Give a list of things that need to be tested.

    Hope this is more useful than the last post two. Imma go drink a coke zero and take a nap. Being two crazy people is exhausting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
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  3. Brewton

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    I mentioned a little about what you just stated in an earlier post. You are spot on. Other games have test servers up for months at a time and they give you notes about new quests added so you can go test them out. You have some good points, but at this juncture I don't think Portalarium really has interests or they would have done this long ago. Especially since people have been complaining, commenting, and suggesting the same thing year after year.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
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  4. Doctorface

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    Fairy nuff, but still, deserves to be said again. It's likely due to their month to month schedule and the lack of a large staff that they haven't implemented it. I wish they would go quarterly, focus on the QA and put out larger releases with actually complete content rather than these 'bits and pieces' over the course of half a year(I.E. Dungeons)
     
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  5. Steevodeevo

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    This, 100%. Surely now the Devs can see we Shroud players are not just all bitter, maladjusted ranters who like to complain all the time maybe dear Port, we're right?

    Maybe there are way too many bugs on release, maybe the release cycle is to short and you need richer slicker and better quality releases every quarter?

    Maybe the current process is actually creating the bugs that are prevent you finding the time to create and refine the content and leading to you being in a spiral where bugs are overwhelming the small team and damaging the game?

    If what we are putting up with as players and the damaging review feedback is nothing to do with the monthly schedule or indeed Port has a 'cunning plan' that means all this mysery is somehow worth it, them please tell your dear dedicated customers.
     
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  6. jiirc

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    My opinion so far...

    Regarding longer times between releases doesn’t ensure that additions aren’t bug free or haven’t got exploits. The advantage of doing monthly releases is that real people get to use the new systems giving them data about many different issues. More time for QA by their staff doesn’t guarantee a better product down the road, but it will mean larger monolithic design and code that someone has to modify to fix issues when real people get their hands on it.

    Regarding QA, there are some misconceptions in the posts.

    1) Having a QA a server up all the time doesn’t ensure that anything put up there makes it to release. Systems and changes don’t end up in a release until Lockdown. Up until that time anything in abuild is still being worked on. Only when they reach lockdown are the changes going into the release locked in stone. At that point, typically, they don’t add new things into the release. At that point the intent is that only bug changes are made. (In reality, something they feel is important to the release may get added later than lockdown, but they try to not do that.

    2) starting with the last QA builds in R59, they are providing a list of bugs that were fixed and systems that were added. That list contains all the things are in the current QA build. So there is in fact a list of things to test. If it’s not in the list, it’s not supposed to be in the QA build.

    3) if you were to look at the bugs and other issues reported during QA you outdone see that many of them are what is being patched. Granted some new bugs or exploits are found when real people get their hands on the release, but much of what is in those patches are things caught in QA, fixed but not in time to get into the first release build, or found after the release candidate is built and tested for release.

    4) the QA software is already separate from the release software. When you run their QA installer you get another version of the software that is installed on your computer. I guess you must mean the Steam version of the software, where you do have to bounce back and forth. Indon’t Know enough about Steam, but I guess that’s the way it needs to be done, unless another set of keys is needed to run the beta software. So for people who don’t like to download and switch the software when using steam to run QA, download Port’s QA installer instead. That way you can enjoy both production and qa releases without waiting for downloads.
     
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  7. Doctorface

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    I suppose I can clear up stome stuff I said in the ramble for Jiirc (love the name, by the way). When I said that the dev team should use monthly releases I meant for Content. Big things like the fishing system, the dungeon system, new areas and unclones,these could be done on a lot smoother of a basis with a quarterly release system, weekly bugfixes and cosmetic monthly updates. This would also go a long way to populating the store with interesting items while the designers 'take a break' from working on a particular scene to come back to it with new eyes. As for the always open QA it wouldn't be for staff,it would be for players and allow for testing of various bugfixes as well as new systems as it is updated regularly.

    Don't take too much of what I say out of context, the game is by far not broken. I don't play on QA anymore because with my stream various circumstances. When I did, however, I noticed that what was on the QA and what actually came out were in sharp contrast but yeah,that's kind of the point. I do have a rudimentary understanding of how it works I just see more ways it could be utilized that it simply isn't and very likely with good reason.

    Now on to answering your points.

    1. I understand systems put on the QA don't necesarially make it to the game. if it's not ready it's not ready. This theoretical scenario just makes it so that more of the bugfinding can be offloaded from the stressed out dev team to people who are volunteering for the benefit of the game, testing bugfixes for non-critical issues after release and during implementation. That Said I'm not a game dev, I'm an ideas guy and an entertainer so take what I say with a grain of salt on mechanical implementation of things. The QA system as it is is working fine, but I think it could be better.

    2. This point was ACTUALLY pointed out to me by someone in my discord like...two hours after I posted and I couldn't be happier! I wasn't really aware of it at the time of pre-planning for the post or even writing it(roughly a three day period) so yeah, well done Port and well done for bringing it to my attention. I appreciate that!

    3. Kinda answered with the above post as well save for post lockdown/release kinda stuff. If the QA server was still up after release critical bugs could be patched out while newer bugs caused by those patches could be tested before being thrown into the wild. Too many times I've seen the game hit a release mark only to get a patch that breaks the game right before the weekend and it ends up staying that way for three whole days unless it's super critical or economy breaking. That said the weekends have been a problem in some personal dealings with port from back in February. (don't ask, I won't discuss it here because it's in the past) But again there really isn't a way to fix THAT problem without major MAJOR income changes.

    4. I kind of suspected that was the case, I stick to steam because I know that when I get on to stream after lunch and some quick area management I won't have to wait forty minutes to get the game downloaded and patched and get in only to have to do it again if some bug fix comes out. Steam does it in the background while I am out and about without my needing to manage it. I'm sure the dev team has a great launcher built but I am SO ANNOYED by standalone launchers for MMO's. I wan't my games updated when I sit down to play them not forty minutes after I want to play them. But regardless I concede that that is a problem brought on by my own personal choice,rather than any part of the devs decisions. (though I was pretty sure that was the case anyway)

    Thank you again, @jiirc, for your post and everything contained within. I appreciate it and you!
     
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