Upgrading Tax Free Lots

@Gloop Fair enough. Still I don't see any mention of "Exclusive" tax free deeds as previously argued in this thread. Thus my comment. If it was exclusive then that's one thing. And to say would not be available in the store or in game doesn't mean it cannot be added at some future date. It's not exclusive nor rare.

The discussion is upgrading existing deeds. Potentially upgrading to a Tax Free Keep or Castle deed.

I don't see the problem here. At the time it wasn't available in game. And now it is. No promise was made it was exclusive to a pledge or a bundle. Homes were. Not deeds.

 

Well, here is update 172 as well - we can go on and on during the 2014-2016 time frame where it is made quite clear that tax free lot deeds of every size were only to be available during the pledges. I find it odd people have forgotten this, as if it wasn't a mantra oft repeated to drive us to buy those pledges way back when.

There are three ways Lot Deeds can be purchased:

• Pledges: Certain pledges come with lot deeds and these lot deeds also are tax free. Note that these pledges and the tax free Lot Deeds that come with them, are all expiring during the May and July 2016 Expiration Events.

 

Tax Free PLACE ANYWHERE Deeds were pledge rewards.

With the addition of the LOT upgrades .... the opening of a Tax Free Keep or Castle came in to play.

Not someone who's gone and made promises. Phulease... Really?

As I see this Players should be allowed to upgrade their Place Anywhere Tax Free Deeds up to CITY keeping in line with the pledge promises.

POT Deeds on the other hand should be fair game across the board.


Tune in to today's Lunch With Laz & Jack And Join In The Discussion on this topic

Laz

 

Yes, yes, and Tax Free deeds period were supposed to be a HUGE savings to those that spent real money on them. Now its almost a joke. We all have suffered devalue if you have been involved for more then 6 months.

This is really a moot point. If I was Portalarium, and faced with this constant Lawyer-ing over 5 year old "promises" I would simply change the rules. Stop promoting the Keep and Castle Deeds and build a new one called Stronghold somewhere in the middle. Convert all but a few > City lots to the new type and solve the problem - there... its no longer a KEEP or Castle. Old NPC towns remain with lots to honor the promises. Moving forward we use something new. POTS are free to expand to bigger player lots w/out limitations

I mean QOL has changed everything. Why are we making a sticking point out of this one thing. TBH this and water too... My gosh, lets just have fun.

 

It is a sticking point because that is how Port chose to market pledges, and did so very much to drive purchasing large dollar pledges back in the day. I didn't tell them to do it that way, it was probably a mistake, but it was a very calculated marketing strategy to offer up pledges/tax free PA deeds for a limited time and state repeatedly they would not be offered again after expiration. Yes, there is much improvement in the game and it may seem tired to reflect back on years old promises, but it is important because it speaks to the credibility of this company.

 

Please refrain from bashing people just because not all of us can remember where something was written or kept screenshots of it. I know this is an itchy topic. But can we try to play it cool for once please? There is a lot of interest in upgrading deeds as it seems.

 

I understand the pain of devaluation. I have not taken the time to add up my accounts lately but between my wife, myself and second accounts and add-ons I am well over 5 grand in, so I feel I can speak on the issue without someone thinking I am not well invested into Shroud. My point is not about promises made, because over the course of 5 years the amount of (and I am quoting for a reason) "promises" made and broken is extreme. The thing is, it was done in hopes of bettering the game. Those of us who have stuck around have done so, albiet painful at times to see the devalue, because we see the love and drive the Devs have to make this a better game and do the right thing. If ALL these things can be changed, QOL, Taxes, giving away deeds, what have you - I am simply saying is, why is your devalue point more important then any other devalue points changed in the years since Kickstarter? Is it because a Keep or Castle was more of an investment? Is that why this promise is more sacred then other things that were changed? Its happened everywhere in Shroud, I doubt anyone was left unscathed. I mean really, clinging to a wording that has to be lawyered over in order to bring real improvement to a game that has seen countless "promises", "design changes", whatever you call them...in the past year to keep it attractive to public seems like favoritism because of money level spent.

 

Soooo, Upgrade to a founder place anywhere Tax Free deed cannot be upgraded now? Is that what Atos is saying? I remember from past live-streams when Star would answer like 50 player questions that upgrading deeds would be possible, just DLMB was being used a lot around then. I don’t know if anyone really has the time to go research that. It would take days I think.

 

To begin I am ok to upgrade also for Keep and Castle (I have many pledge include Duke).

But that is important that the promise a keep, if that is not design. The upgrade are present only because many people want and Polarium request more money.
If "no most" of promise is keep, next time nobody will invest in Kickstarter. Kickstarter are really important also, because the player invest to create the game. Without we don't have the game.

 

I would prefer that the upgrade path be in the game. I may never get there.... but it is something to strive for. It will keep me playing the game, gathering gold and cotos, upgrading properties. Things to do in the game is important. I am sure many other people will be adventuring to save for upgrades. Seems like it have the potential to stimulate the gameplay and stimulate the economy and add excitement to the game. All good things.

 

Ok fair enough. We all have our opinion and I'm ok with that.

I remember the uproar over Commission free vendors being pledge rewards. The same arguments apply here. They were not exclusive. Which is why we can purchase them. They were also available in bundles btw.

Unless something is listed as "exclusive" or "rare", I don't see an issue.

 

Seedinvest showed that the loyal fanbase of this game will open their checkbooks almost endlessly, but that is the only source of revenue these days. Any attempt to gain money from outside of the current fanbase or expand it is a steep proposition at best.

 

So, who is Atos referring to that made these “promises” that is no longer with the company? Where is he getting that from? The Castle deed was added when Royal Founder or Founder account gifting was allowed, but not sure how that deed came about. The Duke Keep Lot was added because the Dukes made an argument that they should have a larger deed than the City Lot Deed that was already offered with the Baron and the LOTMs were getting a Castle deed. So those two deeds weee not even offered during KS.

So, I am a Duke because I kept upgrading my pledge and was able to merge two accounts (my account and a RF account I purchased from someone) and I started at Citizen. If KS was “exclusive” then there shouldn’t have been any additional pledges sold by Port after KS ended. I am happy that they did sell them and was able to help fund this game. Not to mention all the rest of the items I purchased since then on the add-on store.

So, if it’s the argument that everything they say is “exclusive”, then maybe they need to go back and remove all of these pledge upgrades and remove the Keep and Castle lot from the game. This whole game is on a single thread trying to hold tons of weight. Just let it go and move on!!!

 

Lawyering is a pretty sticky situation. Wording is key. If they said, in writing, they would never sell another TF Keep or Castle deed (not saying they did, just IF they did) after they expired does that include upgrading? Was the wording linked to a pledge..or the deed itself... I mean if its not a pledge.. did they break their word? See how sticky that gets? We can't SELL TF Lots but you can Upgrade to them... Its all an ugly mess.

Again, how hard is it to make it 5% bigger and call it a Stronghold and make Keep deeds be able to claim it... get rid of all the garbage.

Its obvious they have made a conscious decision to move past these previous designs, going back and trying to find exact words or where promises were made simply delays the progress.

 

I agree we do need to move forward. I understand if someone thinks promises were broken but there is so much at stake here. Should the development team run in hoops to make sure everyone is happy at the cost of this game? I don't think so. They can just advise things have changed and say sorry well as they do. We do need to try to start fresh to add whatever this game needs imo. While I don't always agree at the time in some choices sometimes I find out later I was wrong and it did help like with universe chat. It is helping.

I can't tell everyone how to feel but I do know from personal experience what is on the other side of being attached to the outcome is often times heartache verses being open to possibility over and over. Please let's go forward to victory however that will be and get out of past promises. We still have so much potential to do good things for this game.

Edit and BTW I think upgrading has been a very positive thing so far for the game. I am hearing excitement from players about it.
I unlike some others have not been counting this game as an investment venue. I spent what I spent as in other games by choice to support a game I chose and I don't ever plan to get those funds back. Why would I?

 

And one last question, if Port is deciding to restrict the founder pledge tf deeds from being able to upgrade, then how are the going to handle the ones already upgraded since it went live already? Reverse them? Hope nobody upgraded, packed up and claimed a larger land lot. I guess they will find all of there items in the bank with a sorry note?

This is a complete mess right now.

 

Think it was 2300 COTO to go from a Founder City to a Founder Keep.

 

As far as I remember it was said in Livestreams: Exclusive for Episode 1 and that they thinking of bringing Keep / Castle Taxfree Lot Deeds back in Bundles in Episode 2.

 

These weren't just previous designs though - they marketed these pledges in a specific way to motivate people to buy them at the time, because they would be gone forever at expiration. Why is it okay to not honor what you marketed previously? Examples are above, pledges and their associated lot deeds were EXPIRED at a point in time. If they had intent to bring them back they should have said it at the time. Just because the design/direction has changed, or they need money, or that promises were made X number of years ago doesn't mean they should be invalidated. I do not agree that "just moving on" because it is "good for the game" is a great factor to do what is being done here.

I totally agree with you on that Port has other ways to get cool deeds out there that doesn't violate the past commitments, just like they did when they added TF POT only deeds that did not mess with past promises (there is a reason they made those TF POT only - if there weren't promises about TF PA deeds being expired, why didn't they just bring those back instead). A new size lot deed, Tax Free Place Anywhere only in Ep. 2 lands, etc. are all ways to alleviate this issue.

 

I'm hearing the same thing. Lots of enthusiasm generated.

I own hundreds of COTO's and didn't see any future need for purchasing more until this came up. Now I'm looking at buying even more. Having some path would be helpful to additional sales. I have a number of taxed deeds as well. The possibility we might be able to upgrade those as well would also encourage me further. And I'm sure others.

Re-reading the history from pledge rewards to bundles. Unless it was presented as exclusive or rare, I say let's go for it. If it encourages more players then why not?

If there is no path to these larger lots, eventually we'll see plenty of full row/village/town lots, and plenty of empty keep/castle lots.