Why this game is important

Baltae, if you use a loaded term, such as 'force' expect a loaded response.

" What I mean is that I hope the game content is so inspiring that it will attract all types of players, and that everyone will agree that playing with WHATEVER single rule set is worth it for access to that killer content."

You haven't been hanging out in chat much, I see. People in there can't agree on anything, and you expect the dev's to be able to herd this gaggle of cats into a single game? I'm not seeing it.

We aren't all that far apart, however. I would hope that a majority of people would come to Siege Perilous because it offers exactly what you describe, game content that is so inspiring, it will attract all sorts of players.

But, with Marthos's comment in mind, I am not expecting that, nor would I require that everyone go there. No matter how compelling _I_ think SP would be, that is not to everyone's taste, which is why I propose that SP be a test, a prototype used in the Alpha/Beta test.

If the test fails and no one uses it, clip it off and go with SPO/FPO/OPO as planned. If it is a modest success, include it as an option upon release. If it is wildly successful beyond all expectations, release Siege Perilous as the dominant mode of play.

The devs have to go with what works, not with what they THINK might work. That is the purpose of the Alpha/Beta test, to discover what works best. That is why we are here, to discover that as well.

 

Yep, we're not far apart. For test purposes, I think a siege perilous is a great idea. The problem is that if single player mode fanatics or carebears aren't forced to at least try it, they simply won't. It becomes a bit of a Green Eggs and Ham situation. That's why I (reluctantly) used the term "force," as that's the only way you can get players of all types to witness how awesome a true sandbox MMO can be.

 

@BorgKitten Unfortunately for you, you're right: if you didn't play early UO, then you have never played a truly fulfilling MMORPG. Recent MMOs are like crappy arcade games -- fancy pixels, but they don't make you feel anything. I have no idea how people enjoy gear collection games that don't actually make you feel scared. What's the point?

Your husband is a genius and a gentleman.

 

Lord British has said that there will be quests offered to SPO and FPO players to entice them to take part in PvP. I find that to be an encouraging stance on his part. That tells me that he is committed to making PvP an integral part of the game, and that OPO is the primary emphasis for SotA.

Rather than forcing them, he is, as I say, enticing them. I think that should be the preferred approach.

 

@owain good reach there.

 

Simply taking part/having in PvP is one thing. Living virtually in a world where you actually care about your character and what happens to it is another.

When you play a paper and pencil RPG you spend months, sometimes years building that character up. You develop a real connection to it (I have a framed picture of one of mine in my home office that my wife got me as a gift). If that character dies in one of our game-play session, he is gone forever. I will experiences real loss. Because of this, every moment I play the game using him is extremely fun. Every risk I take to save a friend in game is a real risk that is meaningful.

RG talks about the ultimate RPG. To me, paper pen is the basis of that and one of the main components is real risk of real loss. Paper pen takes it all the way to Perma Death and it makes for an amazing experience. I don't understand why computer gamers today don't get that concept. You don't have to have perma death, but if there is no threat of real meaningful loss then there is no glory in any triumph.

 

I truly believe that if some people had the experience that some of us had with UO they would change their mind, however there are still going to be the people that do not like it because they are gaming for completely different reasons that cannot be changed. They don't like PvP or others players being a factor that can change their game.

I think it is in their best interest to start strong and let those less familiar with it experience what it was like rather than put out a subdued system from the start. I think SPO and FPO could be enough to satisfy everyone else. Most of those people would probably be satisfied if this game was single player to begin with.

If you took a poll of all the people who are against open pvp and ask them how much they would play in SPO/FPO vs OPO it would probably be at least 50% in the SPO/FPO. On the other hand if you took a poll of people that wanted open PvP and asked them they would probably say 100% OPO.

 

Not everyone has the same background, so not all players are at the same position you are in their preferred playing style. These players need to be provided an opportunity to sample other game styles, but still they need to be enticed. Make them want to participate. If they don't have the option to play their preferred style of play, then they won't play at all, and there will never be an opportunity to 'entice' them.

 

For me PvP has nothing to do with it. I helps for sure and is great but if RG removed PvP and added perma death or some sort of a life counter system (100 lives + X random), I would play the crap out of this game.

Nothing comes close to a Paper Pen game in the computer world. Haven & Heart/Salem sort of does but it's very indi, not classic fantasy and cumbersome. RG has a big enough name and following he could pull it off.

So I guess that's my hope for this game. If it ends up more MMO style with single player/coop options, full loot and open PvP would be ideal for the overword. If they shy away from PvP the punishment should get harsher for failure, toward perma death. Just my opinion coming from Paper/Pen which I believe RG's roots are as well.

 

People talk and make assumptions that those that do not want the UO world play never played the original game. I alpha and beta tested the game as well as played early game play. I know what the original game had and what it really lacked.

Story and the ultima feel.

 

@Ztruk: I agree with you.

 

<blockquote>People talk and make assumptions that those that do not want the UO world play never played the original game. I alpha and beta tested the game as well as played early game play. I know what the original game had and what it really lacked.

Story and the ultima feel.</blockquote>

Yes but haven't you said it yourself that you are not a PvPer?


As for permadeath, I could never go for that because I intend to die and I intend to attempt risky things. Permadeath to me means being extra careful or being prepared to remake your character or just stop playing the game altogether. Those aren't in my wheelhouse in an ideal game. To each his own though. I could go for extended death however.

 

@antalicus I'm not a pvper? So what? What does that have to do with my opinion on what I thought of the original game? I was involved in PVP in those games, and it was lacking in control. Hell even RG said it was.

Don't discount someones argument just because you disagree with their playstyle choice.

 

I would not agree that UO had no story. I can tell stories about UO for days. The difference between UO story and every other mainstream game's story is UO's was completely organic and player driven. With an amazing sandbox game you don't have to be handed a story. EVE online (which is the closest thing to a true sandbox out there) has a real legit History written by players about players/guilds(corps). That is amazing to me. We need traditional fantasy version of that!

That being said, it's obvious they are going for a main story quest in this game. I really hope they don't restrict the potential for a sandbox player driven story-line in over-world.

I played a UO freeshard (based on OSI/T2A era) a couple years back and a new player started and asked "where are the quests?". I told him I'd give him a few axes to chop trees with. He could bring the wood to me and I'd split the profit from making bows (I was GM bowyer). He would also gain lumber-jacking and strength while doing this.

Everything is better when it's player driven. I had a good experience, he/she did as well and there is also a sense of community. When people run from ! to ? and just want to know where mob X is so they can kill it and move on.. you loose a huge part of what a real MMO game can be.

 

I completely agree, and was just echoing these statements in the thread I just made "Hopes and Concerns." I REALLY hope this leans more on the MMO-side and not so much on the single-player offline side. I feel like this is a last chance to recapture the original spirit of UO but there are too many ideas of what this game needs to be and I'm nervous =(

 

I think @Ztruk said it well: player driven stories can be rich, and are certainly more dynamic than a developer-provided campaign. Having both elements would be ideal.

@Riot I'm nervous too, but if I trust anyone to steer the ship, it's Lord British himself.

@Rune_74 I'm just curious, and I really hope you don't take this question the wrong way, but if you are such a ********, what is it that you hope to glean from this game that isn't already available in just about any other game out there right now? I'm not trying to break your balls, I would just like to know what features you are hoping for/anticipating.

 

@baltae first off, carebears is a stupid name to call something that is different then what you like, its derogatory and rude.

Now as to what I hope to get out of this....Ultima. I want the Ultima of old, no other games come close to what they offer. They are not even about combat and whatnot, they are a living breathing world that is amazing. Many UO players I have talked to don't know the things we find interesting about ultima, like virtues and such.

 

Ditto Baltae, ditch that ******** language.

 

Rune, UO was a living breathing world with elements of the virtues as well. It was an amazing thing for its time. Especially since it wasn't static like a single player game with scripted NPCs. If you never really played it it's hard to see this perspective as well, eh? =)

 

I played it for months, alpha and beta tested it...so I think I have perspective.