Rename certain things for better vendor listing.

Small thing but I think it'd be nice to rename things like dyes and so on to "Dye (Red)" or "Dye - Red" so they list better on vendors, especially tailors. For example, you'd essentially end up with:

• Dye (Aether Glowing)
• Dye (Blue)
  
• Dye (Red)
• Arrow (14)
• Black Pearl (36)
• Chunk of Coal (43)

etc...

Instead of:

• Arrow (14)
  
• Aether Glowing Dye
  
• Black Pearl (36)
• Blue Dye
• Chunk of Coal (43)
• Red Dye

etc...

Not just restricted to dyes, you could also do this with reagents too and a myriad of other items.

Reagent - Black Pearl (36)
Reagent - Mandrake Root (71)
Reagent - Sulfurous Ash (12)

And so on and so forth...

 

i use the filter to do something like this now, but it’s not exactly the same. Good QoL suggestion.

 

@Alley Oop
Please note that this is not directed at you.


I disagree with LB and Chaox.

But from a different angle.
Utility and flavor does not have to compete, where in SotA some flavor decisions absolutely hinder utility.

This since they haven't done a simple Root Cause Analysis from User Testing and figured out the use cases.

Because no one would be upset with the actual name text or care about in which order it was if we could filter and sort on the flags /types themselves.



Take Pokemon Go as an example of a really impressive and easy to use search which keeps the flavor by adding impressive utility. Their solution is also language independent.
They have the same small search interface but what they do with it shows they have done their user testing and listened to it.
It is also a game which both LB and Chaox have played.


Examples:

A)
I open a chest full of mixed armor, where my goal is to see which is the best cloth armor in the chest.

Yea I could search on "cloth" but that will not yield all items of the "Armor Type - Cloth" since some of the names does not contain "cloth" in the name.
This problem is then compounded with the pattern system, where the pattern name text replace the original name text. Compounded and worse if it is something we can rename like containers. Compounded and even worse if I'm not playing the english version of the game.

Which means I cannot use the SotA item search to find what I want. Because it only searches the name text.
So I get lots of false positives AND false negatives.

B)
I open a chest full of decoration items, where my goal is to deco my Player Estate (POT) and thus want to see which objects I can place.
Can't do it.
Must instead do it by trial and error.

C)
I open a chest full of dungeon items, where my goal is to pick an Entrance.
But my search on "entrance" name texts gets too many false positives from all the basement entrances and other dungeon pieces that also have "entrance" in their name.
(Yea I'm looking at you Green Marble rooms, *hisses*)...


Now compare that to Pokemon Go.
I open my Pokedex which is full of Pokemon with weird names, where my goal is to see which is the strongest "fire type" that I have got.
Easy.
I switch the sorting from alphabetical to CP (strength), then in the search field I write "fire", it will now sort my list in descending CP order giving me all pokemon that either has a name text matching "fire" or those who match the keyword "fire".
https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/guide-search-bar#3
I could have renamed all of those pokemon to chinese names in chinese characters and it would still list all the "fire" type pokemon.

Buy wait a minute some say. It isn't the CP and type that only matters but also the move type.
Easy.
You just add an @ before and when I search on @Fire I get all pokemon with a fire type move.
I can even search on a specific move name, searching with @ in front also does a text search for the move name text. So searching on @Count will give me all pokemons with a move whose name text includes "count" in it.





So lets go back and see how that approac would solve SotA's issue with flavor vs utility when it comes to names.
When using the @ sign in the search field then the user wants a key word search. Where all (non-secret) flag/property name texts are key words.

A)
I open a chest full of mixed armor, where my goal is to see which is the best cloth armor in the chest.
Easy.
I search on @cloth and all objects with a key name text with "cloth" in it is listed.
Even better if I know the full name of the flag, then using @armor_cloth would not result in false positives


B)
I open a chest full of decoration items, where my goal is to deco my Player Estate (POT) and thus want to see which objects I can place.
Easy.
But now it doesn't help with only @pot since that isn't the name text i'm after but the actual property.
So here I must know the exact key, but of course I know it since I read the manual so I put in @player_owned_town_placement and only get those with the flag.


C)
I open a chest full of dungeon items, where my goal is to pick an Entrance.
Easy.
@dungeon_entrance


With that it wouldn't matter one bit to the users which name text the object has, because the use case would be fullfilled seperately.




So I disagree with them that thay have "both Richard's vision and a high level of usability at the same time" since they have yet to solve the use cases.

Which is why we get the request like in the OP over and over and over again, plus all the bug reports of "I've lost my XXX I can't find it", etc.
They would probably get ROI on that feature investment in less than a year just in the reduction of support tickets and bug reports alone, not even counting the player happiness factor.

Nothing wrong with @Astirian 's suggestion but that wish wouldn't really solve the use case he is describing.


*EDIT*
Apologies to the ones I inadvertently tagged by using the @ there. I blame pokemon...
*EDIT*

 

What you want is grouping of items. That can be done by allowing folders in the object browsers, one sees when open a container or vendor.
Folders would also support browsing of vendors. And arranging items like dyes, deco, light armour, heavy armour, .... and presenting sets eg. mage set, swordsman set, ... *
For containers, containers can already be used to add folders for grouping items.
(*containers with a selling price > 0 gold can not be used as folders, they need to be empty so one can buy them)

In UO it was simple. There, one uses a container (small bag, back back, chest, ...) for grouping and arranging items. Beside the fact that it was more immersive to open the backpack of a vendor and see the backpack with its content and containers.

 

Thanks for the replies guys! This is illuminating.

I like the folder idea, someone could come to my vendor and see:

+Dyes
+Hats

Absolutely spot on with the bags in UO @CatweazleX.

@Spoon thanks for the well thought out and considered response!

In object oriented programming you can very easily add a property to an object. So, I would suggest that they should be able to sort items behind the scenes without having to rename things. It already is like a spreadsheet with the removal of bag mode (but Starr's right, it is also very handy) but they could accommodate Richard's vision while still making things tidier I feel.

Forgive the pseudo-code but what I'm getting at is, assuming this runs on inventory load, something like:

for each (item in inventory) {
sort item by item.type
}

So, a bit like the example above you'd have:

• Aether Glowing Dye
• Blue Dye
  
• Red Dye
  
• Arrow (14)
• Black Pearl (36)
• Chunk of Coal (43)

etc...

Instead of:

• Arrow (14)
  
• Aether Glowing Dye
  
• Black Pearl (36)
• Blue Dye
• Chunk of Coal (43)
• Red Dye

etc...

And still remain true to Richard's ideals.

Best of both worlds no?

 

they're already doing that to a degree: containers sort first, and then (at least in player inventory) crowns, then readables like books and notes, then everything else that isn't a quest item, then quest items (which also have readables first)...

 

I think the best way to do this is to add tags to all the items e.g. all dyes might be tagged with Dye, Smelting and Crafted. Next to the filter they could add a pop-up which lets you select tags restricting the list to items that have any of those tags.

With all the items tagged, the inventory tabs could become completely customizable. You could add a "Dyes" tab or "Mined Ore" tab etc. I mocked that up in another thread a while ago....

 

from: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/npc-commercial-transactions/npcs-player-owned/

 

Aye, the ability to put non-sale containers on vendors would work. Then I can have my bag of dyes huzzah!

 

I love this. Would it be a huge task (programmers out there) ?

 

I asked Chris in yesterday's stream. He didn't rule it out but didn't sound excited about it. He thought getting the tag data together might be a bigger level of effort than you would think.

Seems like a huge quality of life improvement to me. I think I spend half my game time sorting junk loot to sell and the rest into my different bags.

 

I see desktop applications all the day, i do not need them in a game.
So, i vote against a tagging system in favor of a more immersive way using bags and also displaying bags like bags and not like another file browser...

 

Naming of items is a difficult task, especially if localization is kept in mind (which far too often is not).
This causes truly malformed stuff, if the developers simply take two strings and merge them, because it works in English.
An easy example: material + an item, i.e. Bronze Helmet
In German you would say Bronzehelm or Bronzener Helm or Helm aus Bronze (or in worst case, if translation requires some compromise, eventually Bronze-Helm to match other longer strings starting that way.
But what we get now is Bronze Helm - two nouns following each other, which is not the proper way.

*Salute*
Olahorand
The Headless Duke

 

Alas that ship has sunk when they removed the visual bag interface several release ago.

 

I definitely like the look of the bags but the management is tedious.

I think when they removed bag mode they should have used the art to frame the lists to keep a taste of it.

 

No not really because we do still have little bags to fill that could be placed on the container. Now to just talk the devs into the importance of being allowed to trade containers of items with other players. Also we need to be able to sell containers full of items. We are missing that option in this game. It could be that you point at the filled bag or other container and it shows what is in the bag.

 

I was commenting on the graphic user interface that looked like a bag/backpack instead of the excel we use now.