How many fulltime programmers are on this project? Can we do anything to help to hire another?

LB and DS have handed Chris the task given to them to get this project into polished territory, we really need to push through this last 20% of the game... we are pretty close just need to catch up on polish it seems, how many of us is it going to take to get another casual or better programmer involved? Just asking this due to the trouble unity has been latley...

We know all you lovley folk are doing the best you can with limited resources, we understand Unity is costing a LOT of dev hours, can we do a big subscription drive to help?

//Maybe this is the kind of thing we are selling more towns for... but at any rate, I will renew my subscription...

 

Countdown to when this thread gets shutdown, but until then...

Chris Spears
List Rostov
Sannio

but I wouldn't be surprised if List and Sannio were part time.

 

lol

 

Tass doesn't work directly on the game and he and wizardsmoke are like part time contractors now, same as undone.

 

From what I understand, I think the team is something like this:

Programmer:
Chris
Wizardsmoke
OneandOnly
Undone (part time?)

Designer:
List (world builder)
Sannio (world builder, quests, POTs)
Bzus (crafting)
Ravalox

Art:
Damon
Scottie (as needed)

Community:
Elgarion

Of course, there is a lot of overlap between functions as it is necessary in a small team to wear many hats.

 

There's also the question of their effectiveness with resources. If we say %10, that means we'd take that funding to hire another programmer, and multiple it by 10x, to maybe get a good game out of it.

Yesterday, Chris was working on Bard balance, a class (in a classless game), that wasn't really requested. That time could have been spent on something else. On the other hand, player housing, which is one of the primary features of the game, hasn't gotten a significant improvement since launch. There's been minor tweaks like scaling objects, and increasing the stack size.... but it's still static houses, on static placement on static lots, that you have little to no control over where they're placed. At best, the system can be considered a prototype.... with a bazillion static decorations.

Yet it's potentially the most central and important aspect of the game.

 

I think there is way more than 20% still needed to complete. Ep2 isn’t even 20% implemented yet. Ep1 still needs way more than 20%. We don’t even have a working map system.

 

...we used to...
*sigh*

 

When you have something that is maybe 70% done, like EP 1 was at launch, and you add 50% more and get that 35% done, how done are you?

 

Greetings all
Vladamir Begemot that would be 68.25% ( joking). @Chris has done a good job of trimming the budget by getting rid of legalese reporting, using part time help where he can, and making sure everyone can ware many hats. There are a lot of mistakes AND a lot of Avatars that are wanting things fixed for them that don't coincide with major needs. And @Chris gets distracted a lot (Squirrel). Several time a post was created that wanted to do a special fundraising for new employed. The last one was for a Community Support person. But they have always said no. Funds go toward the game not toward specifics. I agree with craftymethod though. We should create a crowdfunded event that raises money for the game but don't tie it to a specific things, just to game funding. My money is ready.

 

why don’t you just buy more in the crown store? Buy a ton more crowns etc, if you don’t want to give it towards a Programmer but rather give it to the company as a whole to do as they see fit, just put your money into the store. The more they get the more they can spend on “the game” and not to a specific thing as you said.

If you money is waiting throw it at them!

 

I'd argue otherwise, myself. If we do open our wallets, it should have strings attached, like hiring an impartial, objective director to direct production. One of the reasons cited for Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan, and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, being better than the other movies, is because the director wasn't a Star Trek fan. They were more focused on making a good movie, than doing fan-service or personal projects.

Does anyone still actually trust in their decision-making process anymore? There's not a lot of point in throwing good money after bad, unless there's stipulations.

 

Greetings
Sulaene Moon
I do spend a fair amount in the crown store, my offer for more was to help get the ball rolling on a crowd funding campaign. If no one is interested I will continue to spend my money, just no incentive to hype funding. As for micromanaging money that is donated I know very few companies that are willing to let funders tell them that the money can only be used for an item that the donator is interested in when you are trying to manage the whole company.

And @oplek, the best directors IMO are the ones that are interested in the culture of the project and has the training to know how to create a visually and impressive and creative outcome. I believe this is why the Snyder cut or any director cut of a movie is usually better than the original. See this on the upcoming edit of the justice League using most of the original footage from the original. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jul/10/justice-league-zack-snyder-joss-whedon-hbo-max

Either way and however it goes I am just looking forward to EP5​

 

I'm not saying that interested directors cannot be good. I'm saying that sometimes projects need to be rescued from themselves, by the people who are to steeped in their own project to have a clear-headed, healthy perspective on it. Or, they just make bad decisions in general.

For instance, Shroud of the Avatar.

The development of this game has had years to get it right. It was a dismal flop at launch, continues to bleed members from month to month (aside from the "pandemic bump" that all games experienced at the same time), and continues to alienate veteran players while failing to capture more than a handful of new players. Literally millions of dollars have gone into one failed mechanic after another, with little to nothing to show for it.

So to even suggest dumping any more money into this project without some plan to remediate the utter failure of the interested-in-culture leadership - which barely plays its own game, let alone any others - may as well just burn a heaping pile of dollar bills for heck of it.

 

All I know, is that I would do anything to get @Puuk back!

 

I cannot believe the Snyder Cut was brought up in this thread in a serious way to support an argument. All hope is certainly lost.

 

Trust, faith, and loyalty, once lost, are hard to regain.
I'm not saying its impossible, but everyone's got their breaking point beyond which hopes, dreams, and good intentions simply are no longer sufficient.
What I've experienced with Sota over the last year is a gradual disillusionment, with both the development process and design philosophy.

It is absolutely possible to escape the 'downward spiral' but it requires a fundamental shift in the underlying thought process.
Some deeply protected and defended 'absolutes' may need to change.

We did see a slow unclenching of the fist with the modernization of many systems which seemed, to the end user, to be designed to be intentionally obtuse, time-wasty, and irritating. I.e. not fun. But its always 1 step forward, two steps back with Sota. Do things to make the game accessible to new players and appealing to a modern audience, yet continue to neglect basics like a working quest system, journal, map, MARKET, etc ensuring that people who give it a try don't stick around because things are intentionally inaccessible.

By absolutes, I mean things like:

The absolute stance that "Thou shalt not make money by crafting" alienates a huge potential demographic who wants to play the crafting game without having to spend 90% of their time fighting to fund the playstyle they enjoy the other 10%. I'm talking about faucet money, specifically here. This is the only game I've ever played that stubbornly refuses to acknolwedge the value of a player's time - buy something from npc, "add player time", increase the value of that something when resold.
Consider actually looking at the end to end production process and doing some analysis on values to establish what an hour of playtime is worth, and scale it so that higher skill level does slightly better (you should get more efficient as you get higher level, you should not be punished for being high level, this defeats the purpose).

The absolute stance that "Everything must be a 1% drop rate because it should be rare" alienates another huge potential demographic who have no problem whatsoever spending copious amounts of time (during which they're likely an active player potentially buying stuff from the shop) to achieve their goals. They say insanity is repeating the same action over and over expecting a different result. That's how adventuring feels in Sota. There's no way to work for anything. There's not even any direction. Its just hoping today you'll win the lotto, and after Day 10 or day 100 of NOT doing so, you stop pressing the lever.
I'm not saying nothing can be rare, but when fundamental items with no comparable equivalent are in the '0.01% global drop table' with some sort of server-side limiter on how many will actually drop, you create a situation in which the extremely hardcore (who press the lever thousands of times) get all the things and then try to sell it to everyone else. For everyone else, the game is 'grind cash, buy the things' which is simply not as fulfilling a gameplay experience, particularly in a game where you can simply buy gold and be done with it.
Consider incremental acquisition, earning pieces of things with a reliable, consistent drop rate, so a goal is in sight. Essences>Totems is a good example of this.

The absolute stance of obfuscation: Be clear about how things work

The absolute stance of currently implemented market dynamics. This system that we have, simply does not work except for a small handful of players who (expectedly) lobby to keep it that way because they've spent years circumventing the limits of the market infrastructure (ie, player market towns, 3rd party websites, most trade happening outside the actual game). I say this with admiration, not disdain, for players who have created convenient, reliable market places despite the lack of tools to do so. Unfortunately, for everyone else, market visibility and market usability is very low. On one hand the game encourages you to do everything yourself (having no tools whatsoever to find a crafter) while with the other hand it continually puts obstacles in the path to doing so ('rare drop recipe bs', crafting cost-of-entry, geographic-based trade, luck-based systems despite extreme overkill skill levels).

The absolute stance that PvP should only reward the winners and the loser needs a 'penalty'- pretty much makes sure that everyone who isn't a hardcore elite pvper (or a masochist, I guess) stays far, far away from anything PvP related and cringes in dread whenever PvP is talked about in anything outside a roleplay setting.

The absolute stance of impermanence.
If you want gear to perma break, it needs to be replaceable. Either get rid of RNG in the creation process or remove permanent dura loss.
At the moment, it seems Sota doesn't know what it wants to do.
Do you want gear consumption through usage like a survival game? Then you need to be able to gather resources and replace it quickly and consistently.
Requiring six weeks of harvesting to (maybe) get what you want is only acceptable if you get to keep what you earn.
Yes, there'd be an impact to the economy. The economy is already in the toilet and needs a complete rethink anyway so start with a good core premise and build on it.
When crafting specialization was first announced years ago, this is actually what was put forward - choosing your bonuses. Many of us rejoiced. We all assumed this would be accompanied by a significant increase to gear destruction rates - it was kind of the obvious conclusion. Instead, with 'rare' options and more options diluting the pool, we're in a worse situation than we were originally even with the rerolls.

With the above absolutes, we have a game in which you never really feel like you accomplish anything unless you're grinding monsters. The more you grind the more you accomplish. That's the only paved road to success, and while some players have through considerable effort managed to find other paths, At some point, you reach the 'good enough 'stage in exp advancement (because another billion isn't going to even make a noticeable difference) and gear advancement (because throwing another 3 million gold at the slot machine might get you a few more int...why bother?) and you settle down and accept mediocrity.

These are just examples of some of my personal frustrations.
You may agree, you may not. That's not the point. I fully expect someone to quote one of the above absolutes and explain to me how I'm wrong and how the game absolutely needs this. That's not the point or the purpose of what I'm trying to express. The point is that there are certain things that "this is the way things are" that MIGHT need to be looked at because they are clunky, out of date, or in some cases, downright baffling. The point is that we have the same hotly debated issues now what, 5 years in? And no clear direction from the devs on if/when anything is going to be done about it or even acknowledgement that something is a problem. Instead of sitting down and fixing all the half finished stuff, or stuff that looked good on paper but fails utterly in practice, we get new system after new system which never get finished to a fulfilling state.

Dungeons - still the same 4 creatures and the same dozen prefab encounter rooms only obtainable by slotmachine drop rates.
Fishing - still boring and unrewarding, too obfuscated, no tools/equipment make any difference, bait makes no noticeable difference, etc. etc.
Crafting gear - still like playing roulette
Cooking - still 99% pointless except for a handful of items, everything else totally uneconomical. Still imbalanced with effects (where are you, non-boss-drop int food)
Refining - skills costing millions in producer xp to 'speed this up' make less difference than crafting in a less laggy zone or basement. Needs a serious overhaul. Still takes 40+ hours per week of pressing a button just to do 1st stage processing on stuff I loot in the same period of time.
Dialog system - abandoned it seems with having 'humanoid signpost' NPC with no other functionality
Virtue system - a highly ignorable, highly obfuscated often questionably functional mechanic with no real balance or logic in its implementation that is completely irrelevant to gameplay.
Quest system - still the same mess it always was, with even recently added quests bugging in the expected ways.
Quest journal - no change, still a mess
Recipe books - no change, still a mess
Maps - less functional than they used to be but barely functional at all
Farming - well, this actually got some love. But its still the same handful of crops people grow for cash with the rest being pretty useless. See Cooking. Whatever happened to fertilizer and giant pumpkins ?
Brewing - well, we can brew alcohol. That has no purpose except turning into gold. No real recipes for it, and no real choice in it - make whiskey by spending several hours pressing a button watching a progress bar, sell, repeat. Think how much more you could do with this.
---many more----

At this point, I'm looking for a lightbulb to go off. I'm looking for the devs to pick one of the many, many unfinished, unappealing, underutilised systems and give it a dramatic facelift, fleshing it out into a full, functional, interesting system that is worth a player's time to fool with. I don't even really care which. Instead, I hear we're now adding treasure maps that are going to be another lotto ticket rare rng-fest that nobody will bother with and they'll move on to something else. And we've added 'difficulty scaling' on scenes so that you can kill harder stuff for what I'm 99.9% sure is going to end up being the same crappy rewards that most of us will never get and end up buying from someone. Why would you do this without fixing the drastically imbalanced loot rewards in the base game?

Never have I played a game that is so intent on stopping players from actually getting/using/enjoying the content by throwing up barrier after barrier.
Everything is reactive. Everything is a band-aid. Like double xp and moar double xp so that people actually feel like they're making progress but really its just pushed to the right
Epic artifacts - another thing that's just pushed to the right
Someone starting the game today, without powerlevelling or spending a load of $$ will never even remotely catch up to the curve, and yet the current progression rates means in a couple weeks' time they've done all the content. Now what? A friend of mine that I brought to the game (a no-nonsense powergamer sort) we spend ONE DAY levelling and equipping him, and on day 2 he's soloing torc dawl, on day 5 he's soloing ancient dragon and on day 8 he was never seen again.

I know I know, Shim wall of text. I write this much because I still have a big place in my heart for Sota, and because I care.

Please reconsider some of the hard-line stances on certain elements of this game.
And please, please please please...finish something.

 

Deserves a separate thread.... Sad thing is even if they want to , not sure they can anymore ...its like they re stuck in a loop .... I know Chris is trying to cover as much he can ( even though hes not touching crafting), but hes just 1 man ...how much can he do ....unless he clones himself , i dont see the things you mentioned ever being finished .

 

Yes Chris is awesome. He is so very busy that he doesn't have time to imagine the big picture or different options. That is what a game producer, director, manager could help him with. Someone coding and fixing doesn't always have time to think but many times just time to try to react to all the demands of an angry, impatient mob. It's not working this way with all his great intentions. He needs an over-see-er. A director to say CUT and re-evaluate. Please. Please. Please.