To Be Or Not To Be: The Map

The prototype looks great! What happened? Why did they abandon it?

 

The overland map seems to bee one of the most important topics and is spread over several threads. Here we have another one *sigh* I will never grasp the basics of this *sigh again* Dear admins, can you join all these threads into one?

 

The reason that there are so many threads about the map is because the developers seem unwilling to respond to any of them.

 

They are busy with r5

And they did respond by making the first changes from r4

We have given an enormous amount of feedback - the threads have been created by no more than 5 members so its a little nerve racking

 

You just need to pledge dev+ level then you can be very vocal

 

There seems to be a discrepancy of what to expect from the overland map in SotA. It seems that the devs intended for it to be a simple means to move from hex to hex, nothing more. Some fans seem to think that there should be more to do on the map.
Status right now is that we do not know if the devs intend to add more funtionality to the map or if they think travelling from point A to point B is enough for us to do on the map.

So should there be more functionality to the overland map or do you think it is sufficient to just move from hex to hex?

More functionality could include:
- Random encounters or moving monsters you can choose to engage or flee from them
- Hole up and make camp to manage your inventory and combat deck, cook, mix potions and recover health
- Find secrets
- Look for treasures
- Meet with gypsies, merchants and other NPCs
- A day/night cycle with effects on the map (maybe during nights you meet undead instead of kobolds and find different reagents)
- A weather system with effects on the map (maybe during thunderstorms some special areas appear or you can find different reagents)
- Fog of War or a similar system for exploration
- Ambush or engage other players on the map (ambush on special PvP hexes for example)

If you think of any other things one could do on the map or functions it could offer, post it into the thread and I will add it to this post.

 

I agree with you on this.
Aside things you mention (which are all good ideas), I'm hoping some random encounters, say a camp for example - becomes visible when in close proximity. Then we could choose whether to explore it or not.
Perhaps sometimes you would be the one to spot the encounter first, and get to decide whether to take a look or continue journeying unseen, and other times someone else spotted you first and pulled you in the scene.
I'm all for making camps, that's what I'd do a lot.

 

Why didn't you outright ask : "should the game be better ?"

But I totally agree, let's just take a good ol' game as an example : Fallout. All Fallout had was fog of war (thus exploration), random encounters and special encounters and that was enough to keep you going for like 30-50 hours.

Please devs, do just better than this and we shouldn't be bored with travelling for hundreds of hours

 

... er ... could it be that they're "not responding" because the issue is utterly minimal and they've got more important issues to deal with? Maybe?
(and by the way, as you surely know, Chris Spears acknowledged the issue all the way back in his Release 4 notes -here--).


There are so many interesting things to chat about regarding the pre-alpha releases, but, no, we need another temper-tantrum-ish map "discussion". Comedy gold.

 

What is chatted about mostly is the housing and PvP which I think is not half as interesting as the overland map. In fact I am fed up with housing and PvP discussions. The overland map is a big issue as many threads and polls suggest. So it is a pressing matter and not utterly minimal.

 

Well, I guess you needed a new thread to say the same thing that you said in most of your other threads.

 

This short video is very topical actually. It, really, is the vision that a lot of us bought into.

Yes, for one we have the 3D overland view. Much more to the point though it is portrayed as being a game play component: you only leave it to go to specific points of interest. IE, you'd NEVER leave it to go to "empty grassland #82". And when you do leave it you are taken RIGHT to the point of interest. Once drilled in, the hexes themselves look to be varied in size: the first one containing an old house looks tiny...which makes sense since that is the ONLY reason you would have gone to that hex in the first place. In addition the NPC dialogue depicted in the video is almost verbatim the Ultima7 system. What the heck happened to that bit of awesomeness I wonder...

This all dovetails with what we are discussing elsewhere in terms of the overland view: Its less a debate of paper vs. 3D, its more about it (currently) being "just a map" vs. an actual game play layer.

 

The "many threads" you refer to seems to be posted by the same core group of 3 or 4 people (and I'm generous).

But since we're on topic, I'll say that I really like the way the map is starting to look. I don't know about its functionality or lack thereof yet as I haven't backed the game yet. But as someone who is still very much on the fence regarding Shroud of the Avatar, as someone who is looking for elements that are going to make the game special and non-generic (and they still have a good way to go on that front), the medieval map-inspired artistic direction they seem to be going for (as well as a few other unrelated elements) gives me hope that this could be an interesting game to support.
It's those idiosyncratic details that are going to define the game's tone and feel, and make it stand out from the rest. And it's what I and many other undecided people are looking for.

In fact, I for one was not impressed by the way the map looked or seemed to function on the Kickstarter video. It looked and felt quite generic indeed (another 3D zoom effect, another top-down semi-realistic look on a piece of land). I've seen and been bored by such utterly common approaches to map design in other games (MMOs and non-MMOs), and I certainly would have been disappointed if they'd kept it.

The new approach is elegant, unique, and help people with less powerful computers enjoy the game in its full glory.

As regards functionality, I have only one thing to re-iterate: this is pre-alpha. Wake me up in a couple of months.

 

Where in this thread do I say something about the visuals of the overland map?
Functionality and visuals are two different things, are they not? The functionality would apply to the cloth map, too.

 

Where has it been stated that there will be no more functionality implemented on the map?
What is Portalarium's list of planned enhancments?
Is your list all items that are not planned currently?

 

It is based on the statement Chris gave after the criticism on the new map during Pre-Alpha R4. He said that they planned for the map to be only a means for travel from hex to hex.
Also it is based on the statement that they didn't progress fast enough with the old 3D map which implies that they wanted to exchange it for a map that would take less time to create.
Also there has been no word on what is planned for the map yet.

So if they want the map to be only a means to travel from point A to point B and that they want to create the map really fast it can be assumed that there is not much more functionality planned for it.

But I hope that the devs will explain their view on the map soon.

 

Its of less consequence who starts the discussions (though I agree we have one too many going). More relevant are the number of people engaged in the discussion, which for my buck is enough to call this something the team needs to pay attention to.

Perhaps you are missing the seminal point being discussed, but the very function of the map and/or overland view (regardless of what it looks like) is in fact at issue. All the more reason to be discussing and debating at this time since in your "couple of months" it may be too late for fundamental game play changes.

 

Hey, I'm 100% for your drive to change the overland map, but the housing changes are also important

 

Someone started a thread in regards to the Compass and it brought up another hot button issue - mini-maps. Since many seemed to have an opinion on this, I thought I would start a poll to see what the general consensus is! Personally, I think a simple mini-map option in game could be a great addition if kept to the basics.

In my opinion it should be fairly basic and be geography only, with no data on objects, points of interest, monsters or people. This way it would just be a convenient way to get out of a jam, if say you are stuck in a cave for hours, just going around in circles. Naturally, the areas we have not discovered yet could be blacked out, that way nothing is revealed that we have not already seen! We could toggle it on/off with the "M" key perhaps.

Some have brought up the concern that such an option would kill "immersion" and reduce the opportunity for adventure, but I disagree. If it's only geography and does not reveal anything we haven't discovered, I don't see how that could be the case. So what do you think - would you like to see a mini-map option in game? Discuss!

 

I vote yes, but with the option of turning it off should the player choose to.