Craft Material Properties

It's probably safe to say most of us have seen crafting systems where in order to produce higher quality items you have to use higher quality material. That's certainly one way to go and has some viability. What you do not normally see outside of PnP games (at least I haven't apart from a crafting system I worked on for a NWN server awhie back) is a system where special materials bestowed special properties on the crafted item. Ok ok, now that I think about it there are a few games out there but crafting options in those game is generally limited.

Example: A set of armor made of mithril would not only be more durable than steal, it would also be significantly lighter than steal armor. To offset of course, mithril would be a lot harder to get your hands on and even if you know where it can be mined it may require a lot more skill to work with.

I'd love to see maybe 3 or 4 special metals, leathers, woods and gems. All of which could be combined to make a single item.

Let's go back to that suit of armor. I'm assuming a suit platemail here and that requires leather straps to keep it all together. Now let's say that special leather is unbreakable (having your straps snap from wear is a real nuissance). Now let's make it a set of jeweled armor, there gems can hold enchantments. How about a wood shield with whatever property that particular wood has? Suddenly your customization options become quite varied (not to mention expensive!)

 

+1

Didn't Everquest II have a similar system? Regardless, this should be the case, armour has leather straps - some even have a motif in a different metal, swords have leather handles and possible gems set into the blade or handle. It shouldn't be "5 iron ingots" to make any item.

 

It might have. Unfortunately my MMO experience is limited to UO, DAoC and Tabula Rasa.. (I would include Meridian 59 but I really don't think it counts as an actual MMO).

The trick here of course is balancing variety/complexity with simplicity/interface and economy. Still, I want something more interesting than, as you say, 5 ingots = _____.

 

I agree. Maybe even make crafting a mini-game (term used loosely), instead of click to produce. Even something as simple as a gauge with 'sweet spots' which give you the exceptional version of the item you're trying to produce.

I loved my pure crafter in UO, but the crafting part was very basic. I'd like to see innovative but I think with crafting there is only so much you can recreate.

 

A mini-game would depend on what kind of skill system the game has. Even a simple crafting skillset would negate the usefulness of a crafting mini-game since the game should be using the character's skill rather than the player's skill. Though you could hybrid the two.. use the mini-game with the skill as some sort of modifier.. ie adjusting the sweet spot and/or result of failure.

One challenge I'm seeing here is how the craft system would manage in-game resources. Such as showing the difference between a suit of steal plate and jeweled mithril plate. Would they use separate meshes? Cause if so that could be a lot of work.

I suspect the most efficient thing to do is have a limited number of meshes and play a few tricks with textures like overlaying a jeweled texture on the gauntlets or something. One or two meshes fit all (though some variety would be nice).

 

A lot of work? Bowen, this is Richard frickin' Garriott, he got UO off the ground despite being knocked down by EA several times and is showing in-game footage of the avatar playing a piano and cities under siege! I think the team are fine with a lot of work, providing the pay off is a better game.

 

LOL yeah and I heard they forced UO out the door when the team wanted another year and he still pulled it off (and fighting through the first 6 months of lag).

You have to understand though. I try to look at the entire process from both the standpoint of a player and a developer (though to be clear I've yet to get my 'foot in the door' so I have my other projects to work on but that's another subject for another place and time). It's always good to consider how to get the most quality out of the least amount of work. No point in making a 10k poly object if a 100 poly object and a snappy texture looks just as good. Not only would it be faster but it's less of a burden on both the game engine and the player's hardware.

Everything's a balancing act. I'm all for a lot of work, so long as that work improves the game. If it doesn't then there's no reason to do it.

 

You're right. I'm expecting too much, maybe. But considering UO redefined computer games in so many ways, can you blame me?

 

heheh Richard Garriott's name does seem to carry a lot of weight among his fans. It seems kind of lame of me to say, partly because I know I'm not the only one but the guy is the main reason I decided to do game development in the first place. I was just sitting one day while I was in college trying to figure out what I wanted to do when I realized I had played Ultima VII for 36 hours straight (minus a 1 hour break for ST:TNG, food and a shower).

Being a firm believer in doing what you love, what other choice was there?

Of course expectations are going to be high. It's only natural.

 

Bowen said: "...since the game should be using the character?s skill rather than the player?s skill."

I don't see this as necessarily so. A good craftsman should be someone who has put the time and effort into learning his skill. You can do that by grinding (ugh) or by the player being skilled at a complex or "gamified" system. Making skills nothing more than a rote, guided set of clicks will likely result in a flood of people practicing the latest moneymaker, with everyone pursuing whatever gives the most money per click.

 

Combination of the two; Character skill means you can attempt to craft an item, player skill to actually succeed at the 'mini-game' (I really hate that term, mini-game, but I can't think of a better way to describe the opposite of 'click-to-craft').

 

Can be as/similar Puzzle Quest crafting items, lol: http://www.xboxexclusive.net/img_screenshots/319/1.jpg

 

Rather than simple mini-games that have little relation to the object one is trying to craft, imagine having to move a piece of wood back and forth through steam while applying force; too much and you'll break the wood, too little and you'll not get the proper bend, too clumsy and the bow will not be symmetrical.

Or for brewing, roasting a malt and the color changes from blond to black. A good mix of malts makes a better beer, water from various sources will effect the taste, hops and yeasts of different regions created trade. All these things would effect the quality of the beer.

Animal taming requires you to find the unique food to entice them, where each player gets their own food/animal pairs to avoid the spreading of general knowledge. New animal powers or attributes are unlocked as one gets better at taming or the longer the animal remains tamed.

ok, so these are just off the top of my head, but you get the idea.

 

To extend on my previous, a system like this would create true masters of craft. People would naturally gravitate to different roles and those both gifted and dedicated would become well-known, especially if they can sign their work. One could learn a skill on their own but an apprenticeship would speed things along. Towns would vie for the best craftsmen to increase general trade and fame. Barter and trade routes may develop if it's not too easy for each player to zap from town to town.

 

Ok here's the problem I see with a largely detailed system like what you seem to be describing.

Firstly, it would require a LOT of players to flesh out a crafting community. Not only that but beyond a certain level of complexity and it will only appeal to hardcore players. Then some of those will stop playing for periods or all together. As this is not an MMO, that may be well beyond the scope of what the game can provide in terms of a playerbase. We just don't know the numbers yet.

The second issue to come to mind is it would seem to require separate systems for each type craft. That's a lot of work. There is "on time and on budget" to consider.

That being said, I do like the concept behind that idea. The animal taming example would be easy enough. That's just numbers. Animal ID requires item ID etc. Steaming a bow though, well honestly when I read that I thought of a mini-game. I just think that's a bit much without knowing how the multiplayer will function in terms of the larger player community.

 

Valid points, Bowen. And to be honest I keep thinking back to my days in UO and other MMOs, which SotA is not (as I've posted in General). In almost every MMO I've played crafted items were of little or no market value beyond that of the raw materials; it was too easy for any player to create another mule and grind their way to master. Any item of less that 100% quality was essentially worthless.

Since scarcity of goods is the basis for any true economy, all those things that depend on an economy - trade and trade routes, shops that are not clones of one another, valued wealth - these all suffer.

But then, I remind myself, this is primarily a single-player game and I've slipped into MMO-think again.

 

Have any of the devs said anything about crafting being used to create very high quality (perhaps uniquely high quality) armor, weapons, etc? Has anyone proposed a mechanism by which experienced crafters are rewarded with (incrementally smaller) increases in the quality of their creations? Sorry if this has been addressed already and I missed it...the amount of information about SotA is growing exponentially and its hard to keep up. Thanks to anyone who can point me toward the answer to this question.

 

All the best items in-game are to be crafted by players so basically, yes. The highest quality stuff will be player made.

We still don't have all the details on crafting though.