For all the PvP players, what (if anything) would make you explore PvE?

Honestly i cant wait until the partial PVP people come over to PVP!!!!!! (ok ill change from partial to "Choice PVP" instead) We PVP will be waiting for you to come try out the waters/ or just come to PVP on choice. Being PVP we will already be there just waiting.....PVPing each other and having a good ole time!

 

Blaq, chances are you wouldn't come across them if the filter works as described, they'd be strangers at the bottom of your instance barrel. If we can't pull 20,000 pvp players into this game to keep hexes populated around 60 with open PVPers the system would probably be sub par pvp.

Noct, you have heard our Kobe Beef many many times and know what the open pvp arguement is vs consensual. We both ruin each others gameplay/immersion. Let's hope common sense prevails and they either have a true compromise with a balanced system OR we have PVP has a priority hex filter so we don't run into each other.

 

I think I can speak for most PvP'ers here when I say, I'll be exploring the environment too. Most PvP'ers are not ONLY PvP, they just want to be in a world where PvP can happen at any time.

In fact I don’t know ANY PvP only players in the sense of “I want to be in a world that is flat and doesn’t have anything in it that is not directly controlled by another player. Wanting Open PvP or to PvP does not make you "Anti-Storyline" and "Anti-Monster mob".

 

As a non-PvP player I can answer your question. I had heard that PvP players were not happy with the game. So today while I was at I thought about all of you and tried to figure out a to give your people a challenge you would enjoy. I had come up with the following challenge for you. I would practice my fighting skills because I am very inexperienced until I was good enough to take you people on with a group of mine and find out if I would like PvP. I figured that I could not know I don't like if I never tried it. I even thought that if they massacre me like the newbie I am, so what--you only live once. I was going to have you try and take my house--a nice big Royal Lady/Baroness mansion with all the crafting stations, etc. I thought other people could watch and see that you are only acting like you don't like or respect us for the game--not in real life. Now I no longer want to because you would personally enjoy hurting me too much--a real turn off for me. However, if I were a really good fighter I might try. The problem is I am not. If you will not lighten up in the beginning with people like us instead of calling us insecure, etc., how are you ever going to get new recruits? I will no longer spend my idle time trying to come up with ways to make you happy.

I hope I answered your question. You might have had new recruit, but you disrespect and dislike us too much. With you it is too personal. If some of you do not agree then I suggest that any time one of your people says something like that about us that you defend us. We will read it and others might turn to your side.

 

Lady Amethyst, the best pvp recruiting tool is a good balanced pvp system and we won't know about that until October or later. The rudeness you see here is really seen on both sides cause this is a touchy subject. For instance when you say that PVP players want to kill you cause they personally enjoy it, you are calling them a griefer and it has very little to do with most PVP (You can call it a challenge, RP, boredom with PVE, non of which are grief). As an avid pvper my response to the first part of your story is that I'd be happy to help you train a group, though I don't know this system yet so might not be able to for a while. I've had a blast in UO with PVP events arranged by players and guilds.

I'd hope the system is good enough to draw players into it instead of relying on Open PVP players to actively recruit Consensual PVP Players, something I personally wouldn't do.

 

Actually don't forget about macroing. If we PKs can't macro the game properly that will really put a dent in the game's PvP population. Our micro iz strong, but our macro be sronker!

 

Lol, Insane your signature is funny. Come at me bro, hahaha. Waiting for a sig that is an angry frog and it says "If you feel froggy... jump."

I don't know how macroing will work on this game do to these random dealt decks... or skill increase for that matter. Looks like they are trying to encourage 1-0 key interaction instead of the whole board hot key'd to spells/combos esc.

 

Lady Amethyst,

Not all PVP just want to roll up and kill you, we need to get that idea out of your head before you understand PVP. That is just a roadblock. Now with that being said I am an avid PVPr, All those people that cause grief and make smart ass remarks, is just anger coming out for being kicked to the curb when it comes to PVP in SoTA. A PVE person cannot make assumptions as to how PVP can be played, since they really dont play it anyways. That would be like me telling you how to play PVE if your an avid PVE player. There's no way i could understand what you want. My personal PVP play is helping others (new players) live long enough to become strong enough to fight those Pkrs, back and standing at least half a chance! I love teaching others how to PVP (not PK, just PVP) since i really dont condone rolling up on a weak opponent and killing them just because you can! My whole guild in UO were victims of PKrs, we trained together until we got good and then we hunted down those that Pkd us in the past, actively hunted them down, and got revenge then we took all their stuff and gave it to either other victims or used their stuff ourselves, none the less we left a dent in the pkrs life, When a pkr is killed on sight all the time, they tend to run when they see you instead of attacking you! The only time we ever got attack again by them is if they outnumbered or out skilled us! The reason i prefer PVP over PVE is for a couple reasons, 1. I like having the option to protect myself if attacked by another player! 2. I like being able to find a griever and kill them off (taste of their own medicine) 3. My RP is wandering protector of the people. and 4. I think that fighting a real person in game is more competitive than fighting an NPC monster, since all i have to do is watch what they do and roll into their lair as they walk by (because i know already that's what the NPC/monster will do based on design) there is no random design in NPCs/ or monsters, they are all designed to do one or two things all the time.
a perfect example of this design is aggro, if you move close enough to a monster, you aggravate them they come after you, it always happens, if you cast a spell on one it attacks you, those are examples of design. A real person may run from you, not attack you at all, you only aggravate them if they feel like coming after you. So there you have it PVP, will RP their characters, as much as any, we do like to play the environment, but its more challenging in our eyes to fight each other. That's probably the best explanation i can come up with, and i would be more than happy to teach you how to survive in PVP.

 

I personally was perma-red many times over with many characters in the original UO but I still spent an equal amount of time in PvE in that time frame of the game because I can't stand the typical class/skill tree pre-defined boss fights of games like WoW. In the original UO I was constantly dungeon running and trying new things, exploring areas, etc. They were not separate to me at that time because they weren't separated in the game (best system ever by the way). I don't believe the real idea of PvP vs PvE even became fully segregated ideologies till after they became segregated systems.

 

You're clearly failing to see the bigger picture of how an open-pvp/full-loot system impacts every aspect of the game in an immensely positive way; from economics to balance. Also, coming from the pre-t2a UO and was perma-red on basically every character the griefing, in my anecdotal experience, didn't really develop until the systems were segregated. In the original UO, 1) for every PK there was a guild that had 100 anti-pk's, and 2) not every PK was griefing -- most did it for the challenge and many times we didn't even get to choose our fights because we were almost always attacked on sight. Back then, most of the attacking was done by the "good/moral" players - I never had to start a fight after being red and truly large amounts of us didn't grief and looked for fair challenging fights. That really became a side-effect, in my opinion, of segregating the systems as you then essentially forced PKs to either only be that type of player or they had no choice because every other aspect of the game had essentially been removed.

 

This is your opinion, which doesn't make it a fact. I heartily disagree with everything you said. My opinion doesn't make it a fact either, but in my opinion the pre trammel UO you are remembering with rose tinted glasses was an absolute nightmare and completely ruined the game.

I'm guessing that if it was so wonderful, they never would have created trammel. So many people were being driven away from the game they had to make trammel to try and save it. And then the majority of players all moved to trammel and left felucca a barren wasteland and the pks were forced to only fight those who were willing and able to fight back, and the pks are still whining about it 15 years later.

I will grant that not every pvper was a pk/griefer, but your numbers and your vision of the "majority" are majorly skewed in my opinion.

 

I clearly prefaced my statement with it being anecdotal; as for the statement on the impact of open-pvp/full-loot systems on economics and balance I'm not sure how you can argue with that. If you're interested in a deeper examination of the subject there are plenty of academic works that are available both online and through searchable academic portals (if you have access, for example if you're a student) that have been written because of the impact games like UO had on so many of us - and obviously more recent games - for the generations following me. Most of us that choose Finance or Econ as a subject of study in University were nerdy enough that we were also all playing MMO's so when it came to research papers that is what many of us chose - which MMO depends on your generation primarily, again, in my anecdotal experience.

What I really fail to understand in this forum is why there are vocal advocates of re-creating A) the "UO" that you already have and is still playable, B) there are nearly limitless choices and a fair share are exceptional games on the market that cater to intensely risk averse players that have every arbitrary limit you could hope for so why are you seeking to bring back, "The game you have been waiting 14 years for." As I already pointed out, the UO you want still exists, not the one us "whiners" have been waiting 14 years to come back. Especially considering that some of the games out that have the exact design you are seeking are AAA titles that even we think are wonderfully designed, playable, and beautiful games but are simply not what those of that want the game that existed 14 years ago are looking for.

 

If you are a fan of economics then you have to see the value in the decay based system that has been proposed.

Everyone dies, everyone takes a durability hit. It doesn't matter if you are PvE or PvP, death happens. In a PvP concentric economy the victor must loot the victim THEN the loot must be consumed for it to have an economic impact. Otherwise it's just changing hands. Nothing is being removed and nothing is being created.

With a durability system, things will need to be repair and eventually replaced. It's not imposed by the victor if loot is taken. It's levied on death.

Devs can adjust durability hits on the fly. They can not adjust a players desire to loot, consume, and replace gear. Special if players find methods of minimizing their loss of loot and they always do. Durability is an economic control full loot is an uncertainty.

 

I agree with your second paragraph. and might add that it goes both ways. Old Uo still exists on the private shards and there are umpteen games that cater to the pvp extremists. I disagree with your first paragraph. Reason being that I don't really care how many studies have been done on economic issues, nor do I care what results anyone comes up with in any kind of study where (in my opinion) their opinions were already formed before beginning the study. What I care about and what I'd wager everyone cares about, pvp or not, is whether a game is fun. If a game is not fun for me, it gets none of my money.

For me, unrestrained pvp does absolutely nothing for the fun factor. Quite the opposite. It destroys the fun factor. For some that's fun, I get it, but as you pointed out there are umteen games out there with what they want, including the UO free shards. What I fail to understand is why those demanding first-two-year, pre-trammel, free for all mayhem, flock to every new game and demand it. I see it on every game forum I look at. Even games where it would clearly be inappropriate, such as I believe SotA is.

A good pvp system, yes. A number of my friends love good pvp. A pre-trammel travesty, no. That would eliminate any possibility of my enjoying the game, and therefore would eliminate me from the game entirely. And of course, whether or not "I" play this game is of paramount importance to "me."

Edit: thought I'd add....you mentioned about generations coming after you and whether I'm a student. Nah, the last time I was in college there was no such thing as internet or video games and students were busy getting arrested and/or shot at for trying to be peaceful. lol

 

response to your second paragraph, the same guy that made UO, and other games RG, is making this one too he had hooked us prior to making this game design, so we were hoping for a somewhat similar experience, you really cant blame us for coming here and we were part of the first Kickstarters as well as the Ultima fans! Yes there are umpteen games out there for PVP but there is also umpteen games out there for the PVErs as well. But still we are all here!

 

lol. If you read the post I quoted and replied to with the post you just quoted and responded to, you'll see that he said what you just said, to which I said what I did.

 

lol

 

I know that you know that I know that he knows that she knows...

What he said.

 

This is what I imagine for the PVP player when this games is finished and hits retail: All those newbies to the game that PVPs have become expert at, i.e., better than the AI which is why they are PVP, greet the newbies by offering their assistance as experts. You say to them, "Are you having trouble with a quest against the AI,? I will play the AI against you so you an succeed for a fee." Are you wondering what it is like to be good enough to be PVP? I will show you for a fee--it is the PVP way. Why a fee? Knowledge is power. PVP player are a minority in the gaming industry and they do not like it. Therefore, I suggest they create new PVP players in their own image to increase their base. If PVP players offer to fight someone for a fee they are getting what they wand the most--to play against a human. I suggest that PVPs ask for the following fee: When I call upon you, you will help me with others so win a battle. After all there are regeneration and healing spells. This means that a PVP gets someone to fight against them, then gets them to help them against the AI or another group of PVPs and pays nothing. Isn't that what you want? I want you to attack my nice Lord house with a group of people against my people for the first time in my life. Will you be able to keep anything? No! But you will be able to say that you fought a human like you want, made us non-PVP players glad you are here, and if you are smart, ask me to help you in another PVP scenario. If you do not like being in the minority in the gaming industry then change it. I am giving you advice that I usually charge for. Why? Because you can make this game better and I no longer charge since the year 2000. Don't complain about your scenario, change it! I will help you! Maybe I will become a PVP later. Right now I am a newbie--so new that I never played Ultima Online. What could you teach me for a fee?

 

I love it when I see PvP "advocates" using this line. 'Nuh uh! It's not like that. Think this way cause I told you to!'

It's about as likely to work as the drug crazed hobo shouting at people from atop a soapbox in Times Square. Instead of belittling her opinion, why don't you try paying ATTENTION to it? You might learn something.