Death oOooOOoOo!!

They have already said they were going to give people options for PVP and Full Looting, but these things will not be the default so we have to assume users will turn it off. I doubt Permadeath is on the list, but regardless we need to really be thinking about a death system that is compatible with all the play modes.

My recommendation is not to include loot dropping, PVP or Permadeath in any suggestions. If you can accurately describe your death system without talking about these thing, then it should be adaptable to all the modes.

 

For a fully immersive rpg experience that Im looking for, full loot drop upon death, and becoming a death shroud as I did in UO.

 

Permadeath the way Path of Exile is doing (and Elite: Dangerous plans to do) might be interesting.

Basically, the player can choose to play a "permadeath" character, but a killed "permadeath" character can be resurrected as a non-permadeath character. Permadeath becomes then an optional, and not so punishing, choice at character creation, and still being in "permadeath" mode should grant some prestige with other players.

Expect griefers to specially target anyone with permadeath enabled, though; it's what they always do

 

Yeah I can see permadeath is an optional mode. I don't see why you'd let them be resurrected. A good number of people play hardcore mode on diablo 2 and 3. It could be odd though, a long term permadeath guy dies and suddenly his house spot opens up? or would that be bound to the account?

 

there has never been anything as fun as the old corpse runs in asherons call

you die
you lay there and wait for a person to come along with a scroll/spell/item to rez you
or, you release and get rezzed at the rez site but your corpse remains with some of your items on board.
if youre lucky its just junk items and you can forget about it, or maybe you just did something stupid and your corpse is easily retrievable but, theres always the chance you got too deep into a dungeon all by your lonesome and will need some help to get your prized sword back.
maybe even bring back the death penalty like black rot in swg SWG or the vitae penalty of asherons call.
that is part of what made the old games fun. the need for help to get a corpse back or being forced to make friends to lose some vitae/black rot.

if you were flagged PK when you died, then your corpse should be open to other PKs.


the ghost idea is just plain stupid. why bother having to run back as a ghost? just rez right there and carry on. the time penalty for dieing is just a poor excuse for death penalty.

 

I prefer 3rd and 2nd option mixed.
You have in example necklace - it takes your item slot. If you have it - you play 3rd option, but your xp and gold farm is reduced to 67% of basic, and you cannot loot other players (except from friendlist). You are immne to PvP.
You can take it off - ONCE. If take it off - you play 2nd option forever.
So you can be always safe or play real PvP - your choice, for cost 1 item slot and slowe gaining and recivimg gold.

 

Number 2 for me! This is also assuming the items are easy to come by, similar to UO. If I can run out with a GM weapon and 10 bandages, I'm good.

 

@soulless

That's brilliant! I like it.

 

Honestly, it depends on the itemization of the game. Option 2 worked so well in UO because the most valuable things in the game were mostly not carried on you. You die, if all your stuff gets looted, oh well, no big deal, you can easily get replacements. Option 2 is a horrid idea for most MMORPG type games today, because you carry very hard to get items with you everywhere you go, and if you were to lose those items, you would become useless.

So I'd have to find out first if losing all my items would make me useless before I pick any of the latter 2 options. (#1 can just go away, I do not care for it in games that aren't designed to be a couple hours long.)

 

I would go for option 1, but I think it is a bit too controversial so I'll settle with option 2. It added a lot of fun to Ultima Online and a lot of frustration. Most of the frustration can simply be removed by preparing before you go into a dangerous area.

 

Ok, not to derail all the great ideas here, but I have a basic question / thought:

Are these proposals for how you should recover from death global to all players, regardless of how they died and what their karma / virtue 'score' is?

Should dying and the recovery back to life be the same for everyone?

 

@smack, "Should dying and the recovery back to life be the same for everyone?"

Interesting question. That, I think, would depend on the background theology (if any) RG and Tracy Hickman have in mind as part of the story. A god like Crom from the Conan mythos wouldn't care, and would just boot you back into life regardless. Illuvatar from the Tolkein mythology might do the same, allowing the choices you make with your own free will to either damn you or save you. Jehovah from the Old Testament might have you burn in Hell for a bit, languish in Purgatory, or enjoy Paradise for a bit before sending you back, depending on your actions in life.

 

@OP "So of course you left all your important items in your bank or home and took with you only the necessary equipment to tackle the scenario."

This one little tidbit seems to me to be the biggest issue with those against PvP. Where is the responsibility? Who should portect us, to developers or our own common sense. The latter seems to be in short supply these days....

As a former N Britt miner I'm fully aware of the risks and losing 3 hours of ore sucks and at 11 years old after the 5th time Jackal killed me I learned to take my ingots back to town every 30-45 minutes. The 5-10min round trip run every hour was well worth it.

That silver katana of vanquishing.... I don't think running around solo with this is a good idea... Ok I'll use a GM one that only cost 250gold.

Option 2 if you haven't figure it out. = ?

 

@Owain: Yep -- excellent examples there. I can't wait for Richard and Tracy to reveal more of the backstory.

I can spawn off new threads on death and stuff, especially as it relates to a story experience -- I'm sure there are others, especially in light of Richard's idea about a "Dante's Inferno" for death. But I did want to "frame" this great discussion in terms of the ideas presented.

Are these ideas for:
- PvP death?
- PvE death?
- Self-inflicted? Yes, the "I want to gank myself" thread I started.
- All of the above?

Are there any ideas here obviously in favor of one of the above?

 

I think the answer to all the above should have nothing to do with the manner of your death. That is purely coincidental. A main design feature of this game is the idea of Virtues, so your standing with respect to those virtues, good or bad, should determine your fate, nothing else.

 

I choose 2!

Having a penalty to worry about brings a lot more life to the game.

Having to worry about your body decaying to bones was something you didn't want to happen to you, but it made the game way more exciting.

Upon your corpse turning to bones, only then could it be looted by any passerby but it would turn you grey, Karma in action. It was o.k. for a guild member to loot though.

There needs to be a fear factor in game for more "flavor" and the want for more.

 

@Squee " Option 2 is a horrid idea for most MMORPG type games today, because you carry very hard to get items with you everywhere you go, and if you were to lose those items, you would become useless."

Well no, because in a game where you can actually lose it, everyone doesn't walk around with their best gear. Those who do are usually the ones that rage quit and then go play a game like WoW. If you have your uber powerful gear maybe you should be responsible with it...

I don't see why the mode matters. If you have a decaying body type loot, it should decay in all modes, it just may be harder to get your stuff back in single player.

 

It seems that both options 2 and 3 really have two suboptions.
You mentioned that it affects whether you still have your items, but not <i>where</i> those items are.

There's a huge difference between resurrecting in town, fully geared, and resurrecting in town, naked, with all your gear still on your corpse.

I like option 3, but with your gear staying at your corpse until you retrieve it, though there should be same way to get things back if your corpse is somewhere inaccessible, though at a penalty or some sort.

 

I'd say 3 sounds good, but I'd still want some kind of penalty. Not something as severe as losing all my stuff, but perhaps make an experience/gold deficit that you have to recover from, once ressurected. Maybe some negative buffs too like "Rigor mortis - character moves slower/loses agility for x amount of time." Something like that would add a really cool sense of realism to the game.

 

Just the thought of losing items that you deem precious if you should perish out in the wild will make you think
before you venture out in your "Sunday best" all the time.

Say before testing your metal against a rogue band of gypsies in the far northern part of the map. You might want
to form a small fellowship with like minds and then be off on your adventure decked out in your Plate armor of exceptional quality and your extremely accurate broadsword of slashing, or something like that.