Death oOooOOoOo!!

full. loot. drop.

 

Looks like I am about a month late.

Anyways, I just wanted to voice my support/opinion regarding this matter - I agree with most people that option2 is the most significant and meaningful way to experience this event. It should also be universal (regardless of cause), meaning that it applies to both pve and pvp.

 

Option 2 for sure!!!

The thrills of looting and being looted cannot be overstated.

 

I am for option number 2. This would work for both PVP and Non PVP setting. Games with no sense of fear or loss quickly becomes blas? and shallow. How can you experience great sense of accomplishment if you have nothing to lose? I also don't see how risk of loosing items and gear will be an issue (rather, it will be very healthy for the economy). Sure, dying and losing gear will be an inconvenience... but in all honesty, shouldn't it be? I believe so. I believe SotA should be more about the worth of your character and its actions, something that reaches beyond items and gear. So if you die, you turn into a ghost and you can run around in ghost form until someone gives you a resurrection. I like what someone said earlier that if you run too far away from your corpse there might be some consequence. If you don't get resurrected within a certain amount of time, I believe your body should turn into bones and at that point, it can be looted by anyone (that can see you)

Someone mentioned earlier the devs talked about keeping loot optional. I am strongly against this, for the reasons I mention above. I really hope they didn't mean that someone who puts loot to "off" could run around and loot people who has it set to "on"?!? I am so fed up and tired with all these shallow theme-park mmo's that has been out in the last decade with nothing to lose and everything centering around gear and levels. So I say; Bring back ghosts, loot and real feelings!

 

I personally prefer little to no penalty for defeat because such a penalty changes how I play the game.

Without a penalty I go chasing the most exciting fights, I try my limits all the time, I go face enemies I'm not sure I can defeat, which is how I like playing. If I don't die in a game - and die a lot - then I rarely find that game fun, but for death to be fun, either recovering from death has to be in itself fun, or else the setback has to be small.

With a harsh death penalty I tend to play in a completely opposite way; I plan every move, never take risks, only face an enemy when I'm quite sure I will prevail. Unfortunately this play style bores me very fast.

@LadyM

If player looting is optional you can bet that those that can't be looted won't be able to loot other players in turn. To do otherwise would be too basic a mistake, something that I don't think we can expect from this dev team.

 

Option 2 for sure. Nothing like having real fear while playing a game, that feeling that you just may lose everything. Adds so much to the game.

 

I would definatly have to go with option 2. A game simply isnt fun with no risk involved. besides high end gear should be easily craftable im definatly not interested in a grind for gear avatar manegement game. i want a roleplaying game.

 

Its amazing how you can tell the people who played UO from the people who didn't. They've never seen a game where the items weren't the most important thing about your character, thus they can't fathom losing all the items on you when you die.

If this game is anything like UO, anything you have on you when you die will be replaceable. Losing your items on death is part of what made UOs player run economy the best. You dont just get one weapon and one suit of armor and you're set until you happen to get a better upgrade from some boss months down the line. In the good UO before EA ruined it with things like blessed items and item insurance, 85% of players went out in player crafted armor and weapons taht were affordable and better than some amgic items but less good than the best magic items. You COULD roll out in your super magic item sets, and you would own harder, but it was at the risk that you would lose those items.

The ability to lose your gear and the chance to get someone elses gear is where all of the thrill comes from in PVP. Otherwise its just a grind that will get boring like in WoW.

Option 2 is the only real option.

 

@Widrus - Thank you for voicing your opinion on this matter.. I could not have said it better.

 

I'd definitely say option 2, and of course, if you can get back to your corpse you can reclaim your items. I don't dislike some of the newer trends where you retain a couple of items at death; you need some way to get back, and if this is happening in the earlier parts of the game it's unlikely that you're going to have backup armour sets etc.

 

It's already been stated that not all gear will be replaceable because of the way high-end items are crafted and gear affinity. Everything RG has said about itemization so far indicates that items will not be generic.

I also kind of fail to see where this fear of real loss comes from in UO's system. The way I hear it people had banks with 10 identical sets of generic gear ready to replace what they lose. Doesn't that basically boil down to death having a financial penalty? That's the same penalty WoW gives you from dying. Sure, it's a higher cash amount in UO, but functionally the same idea. Except of course that newbies could potentially be left with absolutely nothing and no resources to build themselves back up, leading them to quit in frustration.

In any case, I don't think that talking about the incredible rush you get from sitting on your butt playing a video game is going to be too impressive to the man making this game. We're talking about a guy whose idea of excitement is exploring the bottom of the ocean or visiting a space station. I'm not that impressed either. If I want a real adrenaline rush I think the first step would be to leave the house.

 

If you spend months acquiring gear, only to be onset by a group of PKers and lose months of work, then I don't see how that is fun. That is precisely what drove me away from UO in the first place.

@Widrus - I played UO. It was literally a chore to do nothing but make money to replace items. I never really got to spend any time adventuring, killing monsters, going into dungeons, etc. because the second I stepped foot outside of town I'd be immediately attacked by an entire group of well geared PKers. That isn't fun.

It should be noted that every MMO since UO looked at what UO did right and wrong, and they all decided that full loot systems were wrong and that most players didn't want them.

It worries me that I see people both advocating for the ability to steal loot from other people's kills, and full loot on PvP.

I don't want a game fully catered to the worst type of players. If that is what SotA becomes, then I simply won't play it.

 

@enderandrew, if you have to spend months acquiring gear, then SotA will have failed miserably in their game design.

You gear should be easily replaced, crafted by other players, and affordable. What you should spend months acquiring are skills and character development, not gear. Love of gear is the root of all evil.

 

@Owain, well said and i totally agree.

 

@Owain - UO, it would take me two weeks crafting to make money for a BASIC set of armor and sword at launch, and each time I would die the second I stepped foot out of town.

Eventually, I saved up for months for nice (not amazing) weapons and armor hoping to survive and initial onslaught from PKers and will still instantly killed upon leaving town.

How do you get the money to buy that crafted gear from other players if not grinding for ages?

If people keep losing their gear, then the demand for gear only goes up, which in turn raises prices.

You can't have a system where people lose everything and simultaneously have an economy where everything is cheap. Demand drives prices up.

Stealing loot from someone else's kill isn't evil? PKing isn't evil? Wanting to fully loot a kill isn't evil?

Wanting to keep what you fought for is evil?

If wanting gear is evil, then why do you want the ability to steal it all when you kill?

Seems hypocritical.

I'm really beginning to think my $100 invested at this point is a total lost cause. I loved the single player Ultima games because they encouraged virtue. What I'm seeing on the forums is a massive rift. Some people keep saying all they want from the game is the ability to rob other players (without combat), stealing loot from other people's kills, and PKing with full loot.

Others are saying they'll never play online because of those players.

With the predominance of the first online and the absence of the second, I can't imagine you'll ever have a decent online community.

It really was a mistake to back this game or participate in the community.

 

@EnderAndrew, I don't know what you were doing in UO, but I think you must have been doing it wrong. I played on the HARD shard, Siege Perilous, and I kept 10 combat resupply bags in my bank, each filled with full kit. Even if I had a bad day at the OK Corral the night before, I could refill all 10 bags in about 30 minutes.

It's not that I doubt you...but yeah. I doubt the heck out of you.

 

@enderandrew - I dont think you played the same UO as i did cause there was no problem at all to get armor or weapon in the UO game i played.
I could as a crafter easily make +50 armor sets in a game session.

 

@enderandrew don't take the UO2 boys overly serious my friend. They are pretty vocal, since this game has Richard and Tracy writing the story with Chris and his team at the helm I would almost bet you that $100 that you're going to be happy with what is produced!

Guys let's try to be both a bit more understanding and honest at the same time. If you're even a solo-ish player back in ~1999 playing UO, not full time, then yeah you've got some game play issues trying to stay in front of the PK storm. Even when it came down to grinding Hind for crafting cloth to sell... Not getting into it, this is a thread about death.

Anyway, I have an idea or two about the OT which I will post later. Just adding some support for enderandrew, as he isn't the only one which experienced a hard time with UO. I know it wasn't just us two either, we ain't making this crap up lol. Rune, where are you mate?

 

@Owain, @Ara: Are you seriously accusing enderandrew of lying about his experiences playing UO? Experiences which are very similar to stories many others have told about their time playing UO? What motivation for lying do you think he has? Are the many other people who have said they had the same problems with UO also lying?

It's not even particularly hard to believe, is it? If a newbie gets fully looted, then by definition they have nothing. Without money, they can't craft. Without gear, they can't farm. As a newbie, they don't have skills, either in the stat sense or the gameplay sense. So which is the unbelievable part?

Frankly, pretending that full loot doesn't cause problems like these is the more dishonest position. That is the real issue with full loot: the people who get the worst part of it <i>are</i> new players. Please stop pretending otherwise.

The full looters seem to want it both ways. From one side of their mouths we hear "It's no big deal if you get looted because gear is cheap and practically meaningless because you have 50 more sets back in the bank." From the other side of their mouths we hear "The thrill of possibly losing that almost meaningless gear is the greatest adrenalin rush known to man!" So which is it? Is gear valuable and important or not? I raised this question earlier, but that got ignored in favor of calling somebody relating their experience a liar.

Another question: are you folks even capable of supporting your position with anything besides insults and assertions? "Love of gear is the root of all evil" isn't a fact, it's your unsupported opinion. I happen to think the desire to murder people for their pants is the root of all evil, and the root of having a game which is played only by a tiny niche. I'd like to actually see this game succeed financially rather than barely clinging to life and relevance like Darkfall or Mortal Online. If this game sells in Darkfall numbers, don't expect to ever see a part 2, and don't expect Portalarium to survive as a company.

 

@enderandrew - Hi. There's no reason for you to have to interact with any of the people who are irritating you here. These are not the only other Players in the 'world' of New Britannia. Their ideas are not fact. They are merely their ideas, their opinions, and their perspectives, based on different experiences or playing styles than you. It's not an either or experience. You don't have to either be a bully or be a victim. There's a whole range of playing adventure beyond that.

In Shroud of the Avatar, you have the choice of whom you will adventure with, and whom you will not even see at all. I encourage you not to abandon hope of having any fun or options already, when we're still in the developmental stages, after all. Many people are not posting in any forums, but they will play. Many are not posting in these forums, but are posting in the Dev forums. Try not to base the future of the community on the personalities of a few. Find some like-minded people, even if they're from your RL, or sift through others in the chat, but keep looking, and I think you will find some folks to adventure with that will enjoy the same things you do.