Crafting, learning from books

Who says we have to put every thing in for popping recipe's, how about we just start with the basic's. Basic chair, basic armor, basic sword(ect...). All I wanted to see is a way to aka pop the recipe's via learning from something, whether from a friend or a book really don't matter to me. Mind you I'm not saying OK here is the system put everything in the game and you can only go so far with it. But I am trying to think of the newer players here!

Basic stuff could be like full on out recipe's and even the next better stuff and the higher you go with it we can do less and less, like parts of the recipe's missing and left to the players to find the rest of the what is needed on their own. I just don't want to see information brokers, or a monopoly on crafting!

I am one of them kinds of players that starts a game and wants my toon to be able to do everything in the game, no matter the amount of time it takes!

 

I understand the appeal but I think it's mainly a problem of scope and just the size of the player base.

@Justice309731 I think you may be misunderstanding me.. or maybe it's the other way around? *shrug*. I'm not sure what you mean by "put everything in for popping recipes" Your recipe book starts off with only very basic recipes just to get your started. It sounds to me like what you're talking about is ways to add new recipes to your own recipe book without doing trial and error.. like finding a recipe and it goes into your book.

So "who says we have to put everything in" sounds like you think I'm suggesting all recipes should just already be in your book? which is not what I'm saying.

If I'm following your here.. my understanding of the crafting system is such. You start with a basic recipe to make your chair or what have you. Then you have additional recipes to improve that chair. Which is a process with simulates what I think your suggesting.

 

Creating limitless recipes that are hidden throughout the world shouldn't be so hard to deal with. We are not dealing in a small game here, this game is going to be huge and also should conform to 'Sandbox' elements. When players experience things that are far reaching and very exciting in games, then they truly do feel they have entered the 'Sandbox.' That's where I like to play!

 

The problem I see with that is that either someone has to input all of those recipes.. which implies then that someone also had to create the finished model for each of them.. OR they need to code some randomizing recipe generator which comes with its own set of problems..

If you follow my food example and apply it to other items? Possibly iffy as well. Take your basic weapon.. let's say an axe. An axe has a shaft and a head. Ok if you want to get fancy with it you can add a spike on the top and a metal tip of some kind on the end.. but that's only 4 components. How many "recipes" you can make out of that is limited by the variation of available components. Ok thinking about it.. that's potentially a LOT of combinations.. BUT.. you only need to know.. head, shaft and optional ends = axe.

Sword? Same difference. blade + hilt = sword. (or my personal preference, blade + guard + handle + pommel = sword). What kind of sword? Well that depends on the variation of the components but the base recipe is the same no matter have many variant recipes you put out there.

It would make no sense at all to have to find a recipe for a new sword where the only difference is the style of a component.

BUT.. if you tackle the issue with a different approach.. rather than unique recipes.. how about unique designs? There's a certain style of blade that isn't common.. or a style of basket guard. I suppose technically that would be very similar to recipes since you'd need a recipe to make the variant.. but that also means needing a special mold to make? That might have some potential.

 

From what I can tell that your saying, you want it in a cookie cutter everything at a random variable the end being x for examples basic blade=a + hilt=b + (unknown ingredients=c + unknown ingredients=d) = random item, or something to that effect. Why do we need just one tree to work from why cant we have 2 tree's? I'm really good at flow charts I play with something for a little bit i can make a flow chart from it in my head and using Visio here is a example..



just for example: cookie A can be basic, B another basic C another basic leading to D something better then E something better then F something better. Then Cookie F can be the ladder or the unknown aspect. Why cant we have Cookie A to E come from scrolls and books and then have cookie E to F come from trail and error?

Or something of that effect. keep in mind this flow is just a basic example i put it together in less then 2 mins and i revised it 4 times while writing this.

 

Why MUST certain recipes require a book or scroll? It makes no sense to require you "learn" a recipe only be having a specific extra item. What's the difference between say.. a scroll you find and a book written by a player? (except the game knows one has a recipe and the other it doesn't know).

 

Whats wrong with a small side quest to get said recipes at the start of say each town or area? I know its so hard to not just sit back and let minions do all the work, but really this would make you have some kind of involvement in the world. Gives you something to look forward to closer to the end of the game, and not just handing it all over from the start! I would have to say that is my main issue with the system as is.

Stuff like this loses meaning if its a simple matter of just looking at your cheat sheet you made up in alpha.

 

I never said there was anything wrong with side quests or being able to learn recipes in said manner. It's limiting learning to only that way that I have a problem with.

 

Limit's are good you done want a lvl 1 craftier/toon making a legendary item would you? Or something to that effect. Because with out limits of this kind, that is what you are proposing!

Also If you looked at the flow chart I made up it shows the amount of limit, making someone do something to be able to make something is the point of this, getting something for nothing is what I would like to avoid.

 

Not true. You are forgetting that crafting is composed of skills you must learn. Those skills are learned through trainers which require XP. No XP.. no skills.. no skills.. no advanced crafting. Limits are already designed. Just knowing the recipe isn't enough to make superior goods.

Skills are also not the only limits in place. Tools are also required. Both tools and crafting stations have different levels of quality that also play into things. You need advanced tools, advanced stations AND advanced skill. Something which no "level 1" could achieve. That is how the system is designed currently.

 

Oh but why do we have to follow any rules like someone else's rules for our crafting. Where's the adventure in it, if it so cut and dry and I mean it is a bit dry at this point. Most all of us have played a multitude of games and so we have much experience behind us to offer thoughts on this subject. Nothing is in stone yet about the crafting system in place from what I've heard in the past. It is a made up system as in all games, attempting to be a bit different, but failing in the engaging department, which may or may not come later. These are things we have to catch now, just accepting a system because that is what is there is not going to add anything beneficial to the games wonderfulness. If we see something not working, not being engaging that is what we are here for, then the devs have info to go by. They know by now we are serious gamers, why else are we here. Crafting should also be an adventure with fun little surprises. It doesn't mean everyone in the game can't find out those surprises if they do the research or adventure and find for example the mystery of the needed antidote by wandering the world and finding someone's broken mortar and pestal in a fireplace in a campground, partially buried, with bloodstains on it, and a partially burnt note with it giving a vague hint for the next step in the adventure to find the recipe. See no limits, just fun

 

OK I'm not sure how I can make this clear, but I'll try. I would like to see some side quests for getting crafting item's and recipes, not for all. This means outside of the system that is setup, it can be something simple in each town or area you go to. Talk to trainer, trainer says go talk to so and so, so and so sends you somewhere in town to look for said item, bring said item back, simple mini quest, just something to make it more engaging.

If this were a real place, wouldn't it stand to reason, that to find a different or unique item/recipe/spell/tool, you'd need to do some exploring? Maybe a little detective work/treasure hunting? This wouldn't be for all items, but maybe really cool, unique ones. Like an Easter egg. For example.

I'm getting the filling, at this point I just beating a dead horse, but I would like you to see what I'm trying to do here, its OK if you don't.

 

I'm getting the feeling that you're not quite getting what *I* am saying. I never said quests or discovering recipes by alternative means was a bad idea. Only that it doesn't make sense IF that is the only means by which certain recipes can be learned.

 

Well, I like the idea... I suggested it many moons ago, and it wasn't received well either. I don't particularly like "discovery" as it makes no sense to me, I would have never guest using "bark" to make thread (as it used to be that way). And now it needs "wax" instead (I suppose that makes more sense). But now "bark" is used in making leather, go figure...

The only thing I would have used "bark" for is to start a campfire...

I guess "discovery is all about guessing what combo of these here 100 ingredients (kind of like a puzzle, if you try all the pieces, 1 is bound to work) is needed to make something, what, I don't know lets just try it and see what happens... Ooops, that diamond I could have sold for 1000 gold just gave me a dagger that looks pretty on my wall...

 

Let's agree to disagree and leave it a that. If every thing in life made sense, it would make for a dull life, sometimes you just need to swim upstream! You never know you may like what you find. fyi never said it had to be certain recipes, you keep saying that not me! I suggest the lower end stuff just for example we can always do the upper lvl stuff instead.

 

Then what exactly are we disagreeing on? I'm making a case based on what makes sense and you reply against that and then you imply you're not for limiting recipes in that way. I've been getting mixed messages on that for awhile now which is why I've been on that point. But if you're not wanting to restrict recipes to finding in-game objects then what are disagreeing on?

 

Having played Two Worlds, Oblivion with the Tomes DLC, and a number of the Wizardry games, I second this idea.

 

I think its just a simple case of misunderstanding.