Throw Us A Bone, Please! ? (Dev) Replied

I'd love to write some pre-game fan fiction for Shroud of the Avatar, but we know almost nothing about the world. I imagine you guys haven't even DECIDED that much about the world, yet, and you're probably afraid of letting out information only to retcon it later and frustrate all of us. I can accept that, but I'd appreciate it if you'd throw us a bone here.

Give us a superficial outline, maybe? As far as I can tell, it's a story about a pre-existing world where new intelligent 'monsters' appear, and it's the player's job to figure out what's going on and deal with it. How many nations are there in the world, and what are their names? What are the main cities? What type of governments do they have? What races live there? You don't have to say if they're playable or not for us to write about them.

I guess you're still hammering out the magic system, but what role does magic play in the world? How common is magic? Does everyone use a little? Are enchanted kitchen knives common? Or is magic very rare? It sure doesn't look that way, given the lightning field or the fact that any player can potentially use magic.

Is there religion? Is there more than one? Do they get along? Do they fight?

How common are monsters? Are people more worried about bandits, wolves and bears, or has every peasant had an encounter with a troll, ettin, beholder-alike, or dragon at some point?

Are there trains? Airships?

I remember once reading that D&D was very 'modern' for a medival setting, except they didn't have the printing press or gunpowder, explaning things like scrolls and scribes and a lack of guns. Adding steampunk even a little without explaining why there hasn't been an industrial revoluion is important. Even though they don't have guns, why aren't armies made up of wand-wielders? Does magic armour make wands worthless in war? How common is magic armour?


I suppose all of that goes beyond asking for a bone... But you know, we want to know every little thing! If you can give us any info, we're hungry for it!

 

TLR: GIVE US MORE WORLD LORE.

I understand that the game is very much under development, but it's hard for this subforum to really do anything without some world context.

It would be super cool if we could get some world information.

 

I am also quite eager to learn more (at this point anything) about the lore.

 

I agree. I would enjoy the chance to dust off my story writing chops. My brain is teeming with ideas.

 

First off, we're all excited that you're excited about writing fan fiction! I discussed this with Richard today on the 24-hour stream. We talked about putting together a package for those that wish to write fan fiction when the time is right. Tracy and Richard are deep in setting the high level goals and details of the story. Once they've reach a point that they're comfortable releasing a fan fiction kit you folks will be the first to know!

 

Thanks B. Crack the whip!

 

ReleeSquirrel, my thought is that if you wish to start now, you might write the basic story, something that could be inserted into any setting, and then fill in the anchoring details later when they're available.

 

Well let's think. We already know that there will be guilds that can war amongst themselves, castles and sieges and even naval action and a mystery island to explore and f I remember correctly, other continents as well. We don't know much about the monsters of the land, but I think it's safe to assume wild animals such as wolves and bears, we know there be dragons aboout so watch those skies too, and I think stuff like the undead are a safe bet. And let's not forget the pets!

So we do have a ton of interesting settings that we can use, though we need to careful with names and such. Now, an example of a story that could be made with this already: So, a knight/dame on his/her way home from aiding a known Lord to put an end to a pirate problem, intends to take a short rest in a a heavily fortfied keep. But unbeknownst to him/her, rival guilds are vying for the trust and gold chamber of the local Baron. Unintentionally our hero is swept into this feud that is already a powder keg ready to explode, and is then forced to choose a side in a war s/he helped escalate, and which culminates in a small scale siege of the other guilds headquarters.

Just a rough idea, plenty of room for dark secrets, magic, surprise twists and turn, character setting. How's that for an idea?

And I'm also interested to see the official fan fiction package when it comes out...

 

And speaking of wolves and the undead:

http://m.youtube.com/?reload=9&rdm=mkqu3c2ky#/watch?feature=related&v=nDyMuANAzBY

LB and Iolo.

Yeah, maybe I should watch all those vids after all....

 

Seriously, despite being a long-time Ultima Dragon, the thing that's held me back from being excited about this project and stopped me from pledging until the very last 24 hours *was* the lack of lore. We've seen heaps of stuff on mechanics, graphics, housing, online/offline play, but next to nothing on story except that there 'will be one'.

Do we even have a name for the world?

While I'm a prolific fanfic writer, I don't want this information so I can start writing stuff for SotA. I want to know it so I can actually find something creative to be enthusiastic about. The locations, the history, the bestiary, magic, spirituality, politics, characters...

...anything.

Because as it's stands, my pledge was solely out of loyalty to Ultima, not because I want to play SotA.

Don't just throw me a bone. Give me a reason.

 

I need a huge LIKE button for Shadow of the Light Dragon's post.

It was VERY hard to write for the "Tales of the Underworld" thread without having some idea... but the cavern art was a start and I injected an old greek monster for flavor. Would be interesting to see a six armed, six headed, evil looking female monster, eh?

Anyhoo... I SO NEED MORE CONTENT. My muse is champing at the bit for more outlets!

 

I picked up on the clues they left with the various chats with tracy and richard discussing some story and world elements. So I followed what they said and created everything else. From what I can tell they want us to create the underworld and what lies under there and how it works.

I prefer writing original fiction over fan fiction though so I guess I thought leaving it completely open to our imagination was awesome, no limits, they can take and use what they want from our stories.

I've yet to read a good piece of fan fiction... I didn't even like most of the dragonlance novels that weren't written by Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis.

 

But that's just it. Leaving aside the fact that original fiction has the potential to be as poorly written as any fanfic (just look at your comment on those dragonlance novels), original fiction <i>isn't</i> fan fiction.

And the competition has not been been presented as 'Help us create the Underworld! Your original writing could be woven into SotA's lore!', it's been presented as a fanfic comp. I know I can't be the only one who finds the idea of taking original stories and warping them into official lore--very little of which we are even aware exists--morally dubious at best, not the least because I I'm fairly sure I know who'll be getting paid for it.

I like to believe RG and TH don't intend harm, but its dangerous waters and people have been harmed in them before.

 

Yep, SoL brings up a very good point. It's very murky territory - and fan fiction can't be used for SotA willy-nilly without permissions and all that. I think it all needs to be defined very clearly.

 

What do you mean it wasn't presented like that? just read Tracy's post "I?ll be following your tales and adventures here with deep interest. As I discover the legends, lore and mysteries of this new land, your own experiences will become a part of that tapestry defining the world."

I'd say it sounds exactly like what I said.

I consider most of those non-weis/hickman dragonlance novels to be published fan fiction...

The problem I have with fan-fiction is much of them don't explore new and interesting characters and settings and there is no sense of discovery. It's people trying to make some adventure out of existing characters and ideas and mechanics with nothing original or new or interesting to read. They are confined and afraid to explore with their imagination what could be, and just write some boring tale about things you already know about. It's for people without the creativity to write something bold and original (with some exceptions).

 

I think you are missing the point a little, Sir Mishri. It's not about taking existing characters created by the SotA writers and simply writing about their adventures.

What I think some people are asking for here (and what I am asking for anyway) is some context. We literally know nothing about the world - who lives in it, what they are like, what their beliefs and superstitions are, what they do for recreation, what gods they worship, what food they eat, what they fight over, who rules them, what monstrous races exist, if any of them are "friendly", etc etc.

We don't know anything about the world beside what the land mass looks like. We don't even know the names of the major cities or whether there is one kingdom or several.

I'm sure people here could write some wonderful original SotA tales, but without any kind of context, they just exist in isolation on an utterly blank canvas. And might totally contradict the intended "themes" of the world the devs are creating anyway.

 

Okay. It isn't fleshed out yet, they are writing it and coming up with it still, so patience like B said, they'll release the info you are looking for once they have it. They just announced Tracy coming on board to write for it during the Kickstarter campaign, it takes a lot of time to create the things you are talking about, especially in a collaborative effort as they work on details that they are sure they will stick with (like city names)

My response was mostly towards Shadow of light dragon, since he felt the need to voice his complaints in the underworld thread. Where we were asked to come up with an adventure we thought we might have in the underworld. If you have watched all of the various chats you'll have an idea of the themes and type of people and creatures/races (they want all new races, no elves or dwarves etc) They said there would be words of power for magic and reagents.. Much of what you are asking for has been discussed if you watch the videos. Enough to give you an idea that will atleast let you write about an unexplored underground world and what someone might find there.

 

<blockquote>Sir Mishri said...

What do you mean it wasn?t presented like that? just read Tracy?s post ?I?ll be following your tales and adventures here with deep interest. As I discover the legends, lore and mysteries of this new land, your own experiences will become a part of that tapestry defining the world.</blockquote>

That does not explicitly say our fanfiction will become lore. Hickman isn't outright saying that he's discovering the legends, lore etc of SotA from *our* writing, though I can understand why some people would really like to believe that's what he means.

And for the record, I hope you're wrong. That could easily become a legal nightmare, and the prospect of everything we write on these boards becoming the property of Portalarium is frankly abhorrent. :/

<blockquote>Sir Mishri said...

The problem I have with fan-fiction is much of them don?t explore new and interesting characters and settings and there is no sense of discovery. It?s people trying to make some adventure out of existing characters and ideas and mechanics with nothing original or new or interesting to read. They are confined and afraid to explore with their imagination what could be, and just write some boring tale about things you already know about. It?s for people without the creativity to write something bold and original (with some exceptions). </blockquote>

While I agree that what you describe can make for boring fanfiction (I call them rehashes...or plagiarism. I've seen some that's practically transcribed word for word from the original material), it by no means defines the entire medium. The most popular, more acclaimed ones tend to be the opposite. They build on the canon world and characters, introducing new things and original tales while managing to keep enough of an air of the familiar that anyone who reads it knows it belongs to its fandom. Some of them are even alternate realities that pose the question: "What if the game went this way instead?"

That said...you have to remember it's a hobby. Even if it's terrible writing it's someone having fun. They don't have to hold up to anyone's ideas of originality or even grammar! I'd been writing the stuff for years and years before I finally learned that not everyone who produces the stuff even aspires to be a writer.

Strange, but true.

<blockquote>Sir Ashlynn...

I?m sure people here could write some wonderful original SotA tales, but without any kind of context, they just exist in isolation on an utterly blank canvas. And might totally contradict the intended ?themes? of the world the devs are creating anyway.</blockquote>

That's exactly it, Ashlynn. Thank you.


<blockquote>Sir Mishri...

Okay. It isn?t fleshed out yet, they are writing it and coming up with it still, so patience like B said, they?ll release the info you are looking for once they have it.
</blockquote>

Then why not wait until then to have fanfic competitions? We kinda have the carriage in front of the horse here, and unless Portalarium's forums <i>do</i> automatically assume ownership of users' content, it puts SotA in a legally dangerous situation if they're wanting to use an idea that's similar to an author's but the author disputes belonged to them. It's happened before.

<blockquote>Sir Mishri...

My response was mostly towards Shadow of light dragon, since he felt the need to voice his
</blockquote>

She and her, actually. It's cool though.

<blockquote>Sir Mishri...

complaints in the underworld thread. Where we were asked to come up with an adventure we thought we might have in the underworld.</blockquote>

I disputed that it could even qualify as fan fiction, and that thread seemed to be the appropriate location given it was the fan fiction thread.

Heck, if they'd called it 'Original Fiction Thread! Write an Underworld Adventure ^_^' I wouldn't have said a thing. XD I might have still been concerned about IP, but I wouldn't have been complaining about the misuse of terminology.

Blame it on the fact I've been doing it for so long, I guess.

 

It is INCREDIBLY important to establish rules and permissions for these kinds of things. If an artist makes a 3d model of a sword for the Unity asset store and the Portalarium team wants to use it, they have to pay for it or ask for permission. If a writer writes some fiction and lore, should that be any different? Note that I'm not saying that I believe that people expect to get paid for writing fan fiction or anything, but I think that some clarification is absolutely necessary.

 

I assumed by submitting fiction to Portalarium, I was giving permission for them to use it. It's pretty clear to me that the Underworld contest was just a chance to show what you've got, and what you hope will be. The only payment will be that one or two of us might be featured in the community spotlight. If you expect any other form of payment, the Underworld story isn't for you.

Fan fiction based on an established world will have to come later, after the world is established. We knew from the start that the world hasn't been formed yet. I'm not sure why you expect otherwise this early in development.

Our kickstarter pledges were very much just for the idea that RG would come up with a game we would like. If you want to wait until the game is published, read about it, and then decide if it's for you, that's fine. You are passing up the opportunity to help form the world, but that is your choice. I'm sure Portalarium will acknowledge the submissions they decide to include. If it's compensation you want, then perhaps you should make a private submission and work out a business arrangement, rather than contributing to an informal contest on a forum.

I don't really care if you call it fiction or fan fiction. I took the few bits of information they've given us and spun a tale around them. It was difficult to write a story without knowing what kinds of creatures would be in the world, or how magic is intended to work. I just took that as part of the challenge. I chose not to include a creature from another world, and I wasn't able to work out a confrontation with an unseen, unknown beast, so I just didn't have an encounter. I chose to emphasize the emptiness. Perhaps my story is dull because of that, but it was the best I could do with the information I had.

At least I can say I tried.

We shall see.