Throw Us A Bone, Please! ? (Dev) Replied

+1 sir Frank, I assume any ideas or fiction or art or ANYTHING I post to these forums becomes free for Portalarium to use (Or likely not use). That is the intent of the forums and that is the clear language associated with the forums, post your ideas that you want to see in the game. I'm just happy if they actually like something I post/create and they use it. I can say hey, this was my idea! yay!

If you are here to make money off of your ideas I don't think this is the best place for you. That being said, Richard Garriott did say that they would buy original artwork submitted to them that they want to use in the game. No other promises have been made.

I don't see how there can be any "muddy waters" or gray areas.. I write something on these forums, they can use it.

Besides, much of fan fiction can actually fall into copyright infringement and they can sued for it (Intellectual Property Infringement). Many companies either tolerate or encourage it, but if you are damaging their image with what you are writing it they can put a stop to it.

 

<blockquote> Sir Frank...
I assumed by submitting fiction to Portalarium, I was giving permission for them to use it.</blockquote>

Never assume.

This is usually why competitions come with disclosure statements.

<blockquote> Sir Frank...
We knew from the start that the world hasn?t been formed yet. I?m not sure why you expect otherwise this early in development.</blockquote>

Frankly, I expect that the world isn't formless at all and the details just haven't been disclosed to us. While I'm not entitled to know what those details are, I <i>have</i> asked that we be told something worthwhile. I mean, there's been character art, mechanics debate, guild discussion, stuff about housing and crafting...it feels like the only part of the fanbase that isn't getting any love is the lore monkeys.

You might argue that the a fanfic competition <i>is</i> giving us love, and I'd love to agree, except it's a rather roundabout way to ask us what we'd like to see in SotA--if indeed that's it's intent.

<blockquote> Sir Frank...
You are passing up the opportunity to help form the world, but that is your choice.</blockquote>

Far from it. If there's a thread that openly states it's soliciting ideas for parts of the game world lore, such as the Underworld, I may contribute. I get that RG wants some sort of collaboration with his fans, and have no problem with this. It concerns me that some people here think that the fanfiction comp is intended as a means for soliciting ideas though, for reasons I've already stated.

<blockquote> Sire Frank...
It?s pretty clear to me that the Underworld contest was just a chance to show what you?ve got, and what you hope will be. The only payment will be that one or two of us might be featured in the community spotlight.</blockquote>

And I hope that's what it is, really. Good luck with your entry.

<blockquote> Sire Frank...
I don?t really care if you call it fiction or fan fiction.</blockquote>

That's fine, but I kinda have to. If it's bona fide fan fiction I don't have to worry about not getting paid for it; it's all for fun and a niche audience. But original stuff I can make a living out of.

I tried too. I got a very nice short story out of it. If it had been fanfic I would have posted it.

 

Would agree that not have story details cripples fan fiction. When I wrote mine I tried very hard to not mention locations or any thing in detail. I tried to be vague and general with my details and focused more on what might be a player's playstyle in the game and maybe an original reference to a possible NPC or trade group. When deciding on a monster I picked something strange which was not only in Ultima lore but D&amp;D as well (and I am mad that no one even tried to guess the monster! ), and I was still vague in describing it and going the old horror movie trick of never giving a clear look or call out.

I understand that RG and Tracy want the history exploratory and don't want to give too much away, but I do think they need to solidify on some of the history details that will be public, not spoilery, and let the community run with it. It is hard to be creative when you want to be respectful to the cannon of the world and have your piece mesh with it.

And to Shadow of Light's comments, no one should assume. I think by posting here or in contests you can assume that they might option to include or use your stuff, but Portalarium will need to reach out specifically to get your permission before hand unless it is dictated in the contest rules. This is only proper and protects Portalarium and you from future uncertainties. In most cases, contests only reserve the right to publish your article as part of the content (i.e. Community Spotlight). Taking stories here and including them in the game without specific permission is a legal problem waiting to happen.

As for game play mechanics, none of that can be copyrighted or trademarked so they can use those ideas as much as they wanted. They could even use D&amp;D mechanics if they just avoid trademarked terms when referring to those mechanics. Full creative works, like Unity assets and fiction, not so much. For those they need to pay or get permission.

 

@Umbrae The reason we assume that is because it is how every forum I've ever been on is. and if you read the terms of service here:

http://www.portalarium.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=115&amp;Itemid=498

(Link is on the bottom of every page)

This part in particular: "Any data, text, graphics, photographs and their selection and arrangement, (hereinafter "User Content") uploaded to the Service are subject, whether in whole or in part, to unlimited commercial, non-commercial and/or promotional use by Portalarium. "

They don't need your permission to use something you put on their site... it is their service, and this is standard operating procedure. They might request it, they might pay for it, but nothing in their terms of service says they have to. If they do it's because they are a swell bunch of fellows.


Both of their lawyers use the title Esquire.. I always find that amusing when a lawyer does that.. because titles are unconstitutional... (The state/federal government cannot issue them anyway, which means they just throw it on there themselves and thus is meaningless)

 

Sir Mishri

Those terms are in there so you do not sue Portalarium when you post appears in the forum or your upload photo appears in the game. Also using it in the game (or publishing) is different than ownership.

I understand where you stand, but my point is that there is a reason to question it or ask for clarification. In the end TOS means nothing until its proven in court and as such it is wise for Portalarium to seek specific permission before using anything on the "forums" directly in game.

The thing about assumptions is they are opinions not fact. If you assume what you posts belong to them then that's fine, but its not wrong for others to want more clarification before they contribute. I posted mine, I hope they use it and will happily give written permission if they ask. I will even not sue if they use it without express permission; however, not everyone feels the same way and TOS' have mixed results in lawsuits on whether they are a binding contract. Technically, you have to agree and sign a contract, but you do not have to read or be aware of a TOS to use a service. By clarifying this in plain text, Portalarium will just encourage more people to be involved and avoid time in court.

In the end, I believe Portalarium will be respectful to user created content, but people have a right to question corporations on this because there are in fact bad players.

 

Right, Portalarium would take on some risk by using user submitted content. I think we all intend to just provide them with ideas and material to make a great game with no compensation other than being credited. But then you have those guys like the counselor from UO who sued for wages, even though it was a completely voluntary thing that people wanted to do to help the game and it shut down counselors for everyone, even if they wanted to do it for free. It just takes one bad person to ruin things. So we can all sit here and hope that everyone realizes that whatever they post is for the betterment of the game and is not intended to be a financial gain for us... but not everyone sees it that way, some people think if a company or person is making money they should too... which is very disconcerting to me.

So if they do actually use anything we post I'm sure they'll be careful to make sure there are no legal issues. It's just sad that some people think only of themselves, and not the enjoyment they are giving to others without the need for compensation (classic evil vs good).