Balanacing an un-balanced combat system

OK going to start this off!
I have been testing the combat system immensely since the release of "combat" whether it be PVP or PVE. This is what I've come up with thus far.
Archery is way OP'd for a couple reasons, #1 there is no weight allowance yet, and its like having aimbot in an FPS, it will balance out because you will only be able to carry so much based on weight, so when the arrows run out, you will have to convert to another form of fighting swords, magery whatever. it is just OP'd right now since you can carry infinite arrows and regs (which you wont be able to do in the real game).

Fire mages are also OP'd at the moment, again Infinite regs (higher dmg fire spells all the time) eventually the regs will run out! I spent most of the R9 and this release testing all set ups, to see how things work for better or worse in combat. If we had a few more skill pts and a quick weapon hot key, we could put bow and arrows in one slot and sword in another, you could go from Archery (when running out of arrows) to swords skill.

Right now you cant really make a good setup for 2 different weapons, i think if there were a few more points added to skills or cost less for other skills, you could have a decent character, archers over time have had the ability to arch and fight with weapons, since after your arrows are gone, you are no longer a threat from a distance and you would need to close that distance with a melee weapon skill,and or defense. same with mages, when you run out of focus, or regs you have become weakened, cloth and light leather does little to t protect from melee.
I wish that as a melee fighter, i could just lock on and stay locked on to target until it is dead or i am!

By clicking the icons for skills, i find myself sometimes clicking the ground, or myself which takes the target off my foe, it is more annoying than anything else, especially when an archer or mage is running circles around you, fireball after fireball, fire elemental constantly hitting you with fireball.. arrow after arrow.
If you run out of focus as a mage or arrows as an archer you are more than likely doomed against, melee fighters(even though we may run out of focus, our weapons still do a lot of damage).
So having a few more points to put into secondary weapons would benefit you/us a lot with a better chance of survival whether in PVP or PVE. So both sides would benefit from it. It would also cut in half the reg requirements for a good battle. Thus cutting down on weight carried for the two, mages and archers.

 

Hello Balquerogue,

I won't comment about balance because... well, because I haven't played the game yet =P.
About losing your target because of miss clicks on the ground, it's a regular issue in any game and there is an easy solution:
An option (default or not) to lock on target after acquiring it. So you would only lose your target if you get another target or press a specific key (Usually Escape).

мир.

 

ill try that, im not sure if that is an option? Yeah im used to the lock on system in most of the other games as well. They keep talking about tab button to lock on somehow. I keep forgetting about it and haven't tried! lol I do appreciate your comment!

Also this is still just a test phase, so they are giving us all we can, to mess with. I think that is the basic reason the whole combat is offset at the moment. If its as bad when the game goes live (which im sure it wont be!) then there would be problems, there is a way to offset the OP of archers and mages based on your skill set up, but you would have to take from stuff you actually need to survive. Im enjoying the PVP so far in the game, and i was surprised that i like the deck system (i actually was totally against it at first) , but it could still use some tweaking. It is also still fun!

 

I just jumped in last weekend and got maybe 2 hours to play around with PVE combat. It wasn't pleasant. Is there a way to avoid staring at the hotbar and playing whack-a-mole during combat? I don't see a way to maneuver and attack effectively. Am I missing something about this system?

 

That is definitely the initial reaction. Best way is to go to Brave Coast and practice against human players, you will get feed back, help in putting together a deck etc.

Once you see the nuances and a bit of practice you will be banging on like a champion! Expect about 2 hours of learning the ropes.

 

That was also my biggest problem as a pure melee fighter. In general, I was probably battling the controls more than the actual players. Between losing my target, having to click on the glyths and just maneuvering around, the controls got a bit too complicated for my tastes. I should mention my difficulty with controls was during PVP only, obviously due to more difficult adversaries. A simple lock on feature would help immensely.

On the note of using Tab to target, I think it does target the nearest enemy but you would almost have to constantly hit Tab. I only have so many fingers.

 

I hope so. I was just curious if I was missing some "auto facing" mechanic or some other way of managing (melee combat) targeting while using some of the available dodges and also looking for skills popping up on the hotbar. Ranged combat was much easier obviously.

My hope is that they get creative with the hotbar. They don't have to be tiny blocks stuck at the bottom. Plenty of time I suppose.

 

This should be quite an 'interesting' draw for all those new players to experience don't you think? If confusion and frustration isn't 'interesting', I don't know what is . . . .

ummmmm. . . . let me check . . . . . no

That's really what you want in a game launch anyway right?

Exactly, much better to practice against other people who are just as confused as you are, don't try it against any pve mobs, their 'deck' is 'stacked' cause they are all 'leet hackerz'

 

Balance isn't even an after thought for me right now. Finish building the systems then look for balance.

No leveling involved drastically changes how balance will be handled. Plenty of other things will greatly shift the scares back and forth while they get more systems going.

 

I would agree with you if this will be the final way they release the game. But at the moment there is a lot of confusion because there is not a lot of tutorials or information presented to the player yet. Right now, it seems you are fixated on the difficulty without any user feed back. You don't honestly think they plan on just throwing players into the game without a tutorial of some sort do you?

 

My problem is not the difficulty, I enjoy difficulty, my problem is that this combat system makes every encounter an 'interesting' random twitch response contest.

I can't wait to see the response from newbies when they realize that this system requires an 'in depth' tutorial of explanation and an associate's degree in deck building, long before they can hope to slay even that first slime. With all the 'confusion' and frustration exhibited by the people who are such hard core fans as to crowd source fund this project, I can't even imagine how great it will go over with the general 'new to Ultima' gamers out there.

2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate. . . . 'interesting', 'interesting', 'interesting' . . . . . yaaaaaay team!

 

And what makes you think that the core elements of this system won't be in launch? Have the shown any sign at all of slowing down or changing course?

 

I think you are being a bit over dramatic here. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out...you just have to take a little time. I don't think they are going to go away from the system, but I don't think it is done as of yet and they will tweak it until they get it right. They have already mentioned that there will be basic decks available for those to start with...so you don't have to do all the thinking.

I'm not sure how weighing cards in your favor is overly difficult when you only have 20 or so cards.

 

What part of :

a) random availability of skills not based on any in game reason other than just to make it 'interesting'
b) random placement of said skill cards in the skill bar like whack a mole
c) the combination of these two requiring the user to constantly stare at the skill bar during all combat


do you not understand is:

a) not skillful based at all, its all about luck of the draw and twitch clicking
b) not interesting to a large quantity of players who enjoy being 'skillful' at what they do
c) will be a cumbersome and disappointing system for some people to enjoy (as evidenced already)

Are you really going to feel good when you slay that leet dragon or other player when:

a) it wasn't your skill as a player that carried the battle, it was luck of the draw and fast clicking
b) you can't replicate it with any consistency on your part, because of the random factor
c) no one respects what you did because anyone could get 'lucky' like you did

Actually, this system is not very challenging at all to players who are used to actually being 'good' at something. Just watch the pretty cards (like you could watch anything else) and click the pretty colors

Deck building before a battle hardly quantifies as skillful, and the system they have planned so far, doesn't either.

 

For those new to the game and the forums, Ristra has it right above.

Pre-Alpha means test proof of concept and build out systems. That some things are unbuilt, being balanced, or whatever is all part of the pre-Alpha experience. The more polished, balanced game part comes later.

 

You are far too emotive to reason with and are simply wrong.

1: Combat System NOT finished, which part of ALPHA are you struggling to understand
2: Crafting your deck to get the skill you want/need to pop up consistently requires patience and skill
3: Mobs are easier then Players, players have also taken the time to learn the decks and how to make them work. I learnt more in 30 minutes with a buddy then I did 2 hours fighting mobs. Also, we then passed on what we knew to other players, and they to us, by day 2 of release we were having great fights, we also helped other people who were struggling with the combat system. They were converted too once they got the hang of it.
4: Dont say you like difficulty then dismiss this as a poor design because YOU didnt put the time and effort in to give it a clean shot. You want a simple combat bar then play it like that and dont whinge that you are handicapped. Its a NEW system so of course there will be teething problems as well as learning a new way of fighting. Refer to point 1.
5: SOTA is a niche game anyway and refer to point 1.

To dismiss the system down to "luck" proves to me you did not play enough.

 

Try out the 'locked' glyph deck type...

 

You forgot to mention the most op class. 2 hander in full plate is what people use in the finals for pvp. No one is using magic or arrows when it comes down to the end.

Come watch the fights yourself. I am not asking you to believe me.

Our two best pvpers in SOTA are using 2 handers in plate.

So you put a post to nerf the two classes that actually need a buff which is mage and archery.

Terrible post in my opinion. Come to Vengeance island and join one of our pvp contests.

 

At a 50% focus penalty? as mentioned in previous threads? How is that fair?

 

The system is indeed mainly based on luck of the draw. You might be able to 'weight' that draw to an extent, but it still comes down to the fact that you just can't use that earned skill unless the gods of randomness consent. That might seem like skill or fun to you, but not to me and plenty of others. You can slice it anyway you want to, but it is still what it is.

I understand this is Alpha, which is why I am voicing my opinions just like anyone else. You don't have to like it or even agree, but my opinion is valid to me and plenty of other forum members who are used to playing a combat system that allows the user to decide when to use their character's skills.

Having to constantly stare at the skill bar in order to see what skills you can possibly use at that moment and which keybind 'now' refers to it, is very very poor design. I don't know of any high end combat games that require you to watch your character's skills instead of watching and fluidly participating in the action at hand.

Why is it so horrible to allow players to choose when to use the skills they know? Are the designers just not capable of designing a system that doesn't depend on random skill availability, ever changing skill locations, and having to pay more attention to your skill bar than the action? Sure, lock your skill bar, at a penalty . . . .