Balanacing an un-balanced combat system

I am a little disappointed with the direction of the combat system. I was hoping for something more realistic (since that's Mr. Garriott's MO) with a minimized UI. It looks like they're going a different direction, which is fine I guess. It sounds like more than a few folks enjoy what they're doing.

That being said, they really need to layer a few more systems on this. I'm not too familiar with how the combo system is going to work, but that should help. I would also like to see someway of getting the skill information off the bottom of the screen. If your attacking then that sweet attack skill should let you know it's there and where it is.

I think keys 1 - 5 (those are my favorite keys) should be biased to your current goal (attacking or dodging/healing/running for your life)

There are plenty of ways to add strategy on top of the random elements while reducing UI focus.

I assume the developers have such a plan. I would like to hear them address it if they haven't already.

 

Yeah. I know them. I played with many of them.

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All these new accounts could be one person for all I know.

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Jack Rabbit you said,
"...are they too busy being enthralled by their creation that they have forgotten about us?"
"...because the big bad pvp'ers keep 'biting' you and that makes you sad?"
"You evidently don't want to think about that, because it would impact you in a negative way."
"Evidently, not everyone is as 'sophisticated' as you are."

I have read every one of your posts in this thread, I've even pointed out where you had valid points but it seems you cannot discuss something without being sarcastic, rude or demeaning and so congratulations you are the second person in all my time here that I have placed on my 'ignore' list. Your "broad audience" has just been decreased by one. Good luck with getting your points across but I feel if you keep going this way you may end up preaching to yourself.

 

LOL
so the few people you played with constitutes 'most' of the people? How many people are founders for this game? How many people did you play with? I don't know any research scientists who would draw a conclusion from such a small sample of data.

Funny how instead of answering any of my questions, you instead attempt to imperialistically invalidate the views of other people who don't fit your view . . . . . I expected a little more from you than that.

 

If nothing else comes out of this, at least I can always cherish this moment. Thanks, Ravenclaw, you just made my day.

I might be your second person, but you are certainly not the first to do so. If I named the other person on your ignore list, i'd probably give myself away. . . .

 

Captain Jack would like you to explain to the rest of us exactly which systems won't be in place for release past EP1 and link us the information from the Devs which indicates so.

 

Well the people I ran into in PvP were the ones who were testing the combat system in the most extreme way (in PvP). AI is different and more predictable.

We know strategy comes into play. For example, Espada came in first place in nearly every tournament he was in.

To say it is just button mashing is refuted by this undeniable fact. Ask anybody about Espada.

Ask all the members of vengeance and liberty if they liked the combat system. Only like one or two of them didn't like it the rest did.

These are the people who really logged time in and gave the system a good test. How many hours did you log?

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Captain Jack wonders if you think the levling system will be in place and if that is actually an issue or not on this specific subject?

Captain Jack would like to know exactly how balance would be imposed in this specific case based on the fact there is no leveling system? Please be specific, because it is not obvious Captain Jack.

 

That being said, there were things I had issues with in R9. I was disappointed in some of the changes to the system. Very much so.

So if you only tested combat in R9 try it again after they make the changes they promised.

I personally like combat better in R8, and they mentioned they were going to fix my major complaints from R9.

With the problems resolved you might like it too.

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Why exactly is Balance not an issue for you?Which systems do you wish completed before you look for balance?
How does no leveling change balance?
What other things do you forsee will greatly shift the scares back and forth while they get more systems going?

 

Actually the balance issues will likely be an ongoing endeavor. They need to have all the skills added before truly balancing the system. Although they've kept it close for a pre-alpha.

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I hope so, I really want to enjoy this game with my friends, we'll see what happens. I really don't want to be a pain in the 'you know what'. If you notice, this is the only part of the forums I post in for the most part. I don't care what they do to crafting, I don't care what they do with cooking, or taming, or how houses are designed, etc as long as it is a quality game that draws a lot of players to the game. The system as currently designed (i know it is a work in progress which is why I strongly put forth my views) is going to make the biggest part of what I want to do in this game, uninteresting and not fun.

 

I'm no fan of tournaments either. It feels artificial and a bit luck based early on, but one guy becoming champion over and over leads me to believe that he has some kind of tournament strategy.

He is also good in PvP. So win goes to strategy one way or another. I don't think it is pure chance.



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Why would you want a combat system used for crafts?

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I agree, this would not make sense, they are two completely separate things.

On the combat system I have to also agree with you when you say that R8 was better than R9 for PvP, I am looking forward to the changes in R10 and the new skills that they will be adding.

 

I agree with you. I'm certain they will do great with the rest of the stuff. The combat and skill system is kind of radical. It is also a key component of the game. They make this fun, I think it is going to be a big win for Portalarium, and us.

Some complain about the dual scale map. I was fine with it since kickstarter. However that may be an issue with people, but every game has some loading here and there. The new version of the overland map sounds like it will be better.

Still I think if they nail the combat system (like I think they have/will), I have high hopes for everything else.

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It's not that balance is not an issue. It most certainly is, and should be for everyone.

What is not an issue for me is waiting for more of combat to be built and added.

There are some basics of combat.

Health
Energy
Armor
Resistance
Hit/Miss/Dodge/Parry/Crit/Stun/Root/Etc
Range
Level
Movement
Cast time

This deck system brings in a few extra elements. I'd have to go review the mega thread for it but I know it's not complete.

Spells/Abilities are not complete or fully functioning
Reagents
Gear
Encumbrance

I am sure there are a lot more elements but lets go with changing 1 of these.

Health: if everyone has 1 health first hit wins, zero room for balance
Energy: no energy requirements then there needs to be something else in place to limit spamming of abilities like cast time. (you can add cast time to the combat list)
Armor: no armor and range becomes OP fast.
Resistance: this is actually a balance mechanic. It doesn't need to be in but is an easy solution for an extra DnK
Hit/Miss/Dodge/Parry/Crit/Stun/Root/Etc: not required for balance, more often are used for an extra element of randomness or chess.

You can see my point. Each element can have a lot of weight. As the Pre-Alpha releases wind down then balance gains momentum.

No level specifically effects diversity by controlling the number of abilities. Currently we get a static number of points to spend. Is that a typical amount players will have? What if that's double, then players will have to be more specialized. What if it's half, players can have a diverse set of skills.

If I could get the devs to do one thing it would be for them to post release schedules much father into the count. They would need to drive the fact that they would be tentative. Knowing when things are coming can assist us in envisioning progress. That can backfire because if we don't find our pet feature on the schedule things can run wild.

Lets not forget about item affinity. We know very little about this and it could drastically alter combat. It may not affect the current balance but affinity is going to need it's own level of balance.

 

Proof? How about the 16 hours straight we PvPed at the Brave Coast, same core group different players rotating in. The guys who had been there a while helped the new guys soon the new guys were banging on like champs saying "Omg, this is fun"

They all came in open minded and took the TIME to learn, swallowed their PRIDE and took advice. We even had people who hadnt PvPed before and had a negative view to it say how fun it was. Battles seemed to have a rythym, obviously in part due to randomness, they lasted longer, it negated latency advantages, the momentum swung in both directions adding a feeling of drama (not sure if thats the right word..it felt like you never really had someone finished until they were lying on the ground). In the end the difference between the people who didnt have any success and those who did came down to their decks. Once they got their deck right to suit them the next hurdle was getting hang of the pop ups and managing that. We got new guys to start as mages or archers, then move to the plate two handed weapons. The cloth builds are alot more forgiving and easier to get the hang of. Any deck with practice was devastating against someone who hadnt practiced. The best thing ALL styles of combat were competitive. There was no obvious OP build everything had its strengths and weaknesses.

You come on here all gun ho not wanting to listen to even discuss the issues you are facing. You then belittle everyone saying it takes no skill. Why? Because YOU didnt get it. If you have all these followers where are they in this thread? You have received likes from the same 2 or 3 people. Isaiah was the biggest critic of the system. He posted it in the forums. The guys posted advice, shared their experiences and offered help. He manned up and took another shot at it. Now look, hes defending it. He came in with an open mind and wanted to get his head around it instead of shout down everyone and throw around imaginary numbers.

No one here is saying the system is in a finished state, nor balanced, we are simply saying wow the system is different, yes takes some time to understand and get the hang of it but ultimately it is actually quite fun and not just pot luck. There are so many little nuances to it beyond putting a combo attack together.

Im Dodgy Dan in game, please come find me so we can set you on the right path next release. If you dont like it after a real shot then vocalise what you dont like in a constructive manner.

 

yeah the skill sets etc.. were different this time around, when i was in R8 it was much easier, in combat, now if an archer asks to fight i just do it to help them test there skills, same with the mages with fire elementals, to me it was long drawn out battle with me ending in a dirt nap most of the time. I did win some when i got real lucky, but thats the only builds i had alot of problems with, and it was because i had to dedicate more points to the different protections, dmg, str etc..., but i still enjoyed it, and enjoyed helping others out, learn thier builds!