Is there *any* way that SotA could be monetized the way Star Citizen is doing it?

That thing that is going on with Star Citizen, pulling in million after million, intrigues me to no end.

Is it Chris Roberts? Do space games attract a larger crowd? Do space-gamers have more money? Is it cooler to own a lot of spaceships then own a lot of lot-deeds/land? Is it the fantastic PR machine that CR has built around the game? Is it the graphics?

I understand that both games are fundamentally different, but there are some similarities too:
Both have a seasoned veteran at the helm; RPG's are definately popular with a large crowd; both have a single player campaign. Both are selling in-game assets, pre-release. SC has Lifetime insurance, SotA has rent-free deeds. Both already have playable stuff.

The ships that people buy in SC aren't even limited: all ships can somehow be gotten in-game too. I think Land in SotA is actually going to be harder to come by then ships in SC, but I could be wrong. Should SotA be making the actual houses rare and limited, rather then the land? And then sell fancy mansions at Concept sales like CR is doing? For 350 dollars a pop, in a "limited edition" of 3600 pieces? Or are houses simply not as sexy as space ships, that have weaponpoints and cargo space and armor and such?

Do SC fans feel they are buying power, maybe, when they buy ships? Should SotA be selling limited, powerful weaponry and Spells, pre-release(which can still be gotten in-game too by playing)?

I don't get it. Not so much the amounts that SotA is pulling in, but rather the amounts that SC is pulling in. What am I missing here?

 

It is almost too late.

Chris Roberts spent his initial money building a web site with a great store and platform to make it easy for people to throw money at him. SotA's website was a mess and it was hard to examine pledge levels or throw money at them for a long time.

Star Citizen dedicated resources early to form a real strong community presence. The amount of public lore, the newsletters, the videos, the constant interaction with fans was great. SotA attempted this, but were a little less successful because they have a small team and they just didn't dedicate the same effort to the task.

Star Citizen leveraged stretch goals as well as anyone ever has. People were excited to continue to throw money at the project, and they were also constantly bringing in new backers. Since some stretch goals are only unlocked if you pledge before the goal is reached, you're encouraged to pledge early. So people jumped on the bandwagon. SotA decided to have nothing to do with stretch goals for the longest time and now has a stretch goal store where sadly I don't think a single goal will be reached.

If Portalarium had a time machine and could do it all over again, I'm assuming they might change a few things with how the whole campaign was handled. But changing things after the fact is difficult. Every change they've made has been controversial.

This game needs more money, so I really hope they get it. But I think the best way for that to happen right now is to find a larger audience. Steam Early Access might help with that. I hope it does.

Edit: It also doesn't hurt that their game is just visually stunning. SotA looks better and better all the time, but Star Citizen is just simply gorgeous.

 

Seems like you have had thoughts about this, enderandrew. Thanks for the insight.

I will admit that I am in awe about the marketing-blitz that they manage to keep up, from so many angles. Interviews, Round the verse, dev-diaries, letter from the president, 10 questions, Lore-updates, handing out glossy brochures about their newest concept ship at conferences....
Even so, Portalarium is doing a lot of those too. Compared to a couple of other Indy projects I am following, SotA's PR-machine is actually pretty good. Lots of updates, also from the boss, from devs, fun contests, telethons, you name it.

Question: if the actual houses would have been the "need to get" assets in SotA, would you be willing to fork over 600 dollars in a limited pre-sale for a nice mansion with some stables, a barn and such? Or does a house just not have the same game-play value as a space-ship? Can't help but think that ships in SC=House in SotA, exept that you are not taking your house with you when you go adventuring in SotA. Though I guess Houses are more Utility and less Power. Since power comes from other things, like levels, weapons and spells. While Ships are both in SC.

 

I'd be playing SC but the game is DARK visually and I need more light in my life.

 

I think it is funny that people call SotA pay-to-win over housing when SC is much more pay-to-win with ships. FWIW, I backed both and look forward to both. But I have $30 invested in Star Citizen and hundreds in SotA. This project needed my support more.

 

I think the reason Star Citizen is bringing as much money as it has, is due to the fact that the market is pretty bare when it comes to space sims. However, the market is basically saturated with medieval MMORPGs, the demand for another game such as SotA just isn't as strong. Yes, a lot of people have been waiting for another Ultima/UO game, but that is pretty much a niche market. The fact that SC has some of the most advanced graphics isn't hurting it any either.

 

I think it has more to do with the subject matters fantasy has been done to death and then some not that many sci fi games though and even less any that where any good it's also more a simulation and there haven't been that many good ones since microprose shut down so suddenly you have all these sci fi and simulator fans screaming to throw their money away ( in a good way though should be a really good game too

also 5 million raised is a awsome amount for any crowd funded game most are happy to get $100,000 or more

 

Sounds like that definately could be one of the reasons, Furious Farmer. There are a lot of space-mmo's but these are mostly rts /civ-type games. Star Trek Online has avatar gameplay and Eve off course has the Economy and large battles of Domination. But no avatars. Does Eve have first person cockpit view?

@dorkish yes, I agree, 5 million would seem like a huge success to me for a crowdfunded game, it's the 63 million that SC is looking at now that is baffling me.

 

well thats what happens when you starve sci fi and sim fans for 20 years things are bound to get out of hand

 

Of course they could monetize more. But I think that is a choice they are making in not trying to monetize too much. This since none of the bosses seems sales oriented in that I don't think any of them thinks sales in and of itself is fun.
The most obvious example of late is the $5M, that could have easily been monetized in numerous ways, instead they chose to give ALL backers an extra freebie. Another is the pledge merger service they do for free, work that they get no ROI at all on. Etc.
It says a lot about the team.

The web site still needs a whole lot of love. Pledging isn't easy and upgrading isn't intuitive. Comparing pledges or even just get a list of goodies to motivate a purchase of a pledge is nigh on impossible to sort out without 3rd party sources like the wiki. Without a complete list of goodies per tier you don't get the true value of a purchase.

The add-on store has very little variety and doesn't utilize the effect of updates. For instance when Nature to Nutrition hangout was happening and discussed there should have been a chef bundle of tools etc in the store for maximum payoff with nil additional/unplanned assets to make.

Look at the new housing page in the store for how it's supposed to be if you want to drive house sales. Pics description, layout and walk through.
What if each house had a unity link so that you could walk through it yourself? That would drive sales.

Stretch goals store really looks like they don't want them to succeed. Because they are too busy with all other commitments already. Otherwise the pre-effect would be better.

Where is the add-on store aiming at the largest wallets that have already spent big? POTs would gladly fork out money to buy already existing assets as add ons. Place one of the Titan statues, aqueduct, harbor with a ship to XXX. Or as I've requested buy dev hours straight for extra customization time of the template.


Etc etc etc.

But I don't think they are motivated by sales in itself, so that will never be a priority. I think they are genuine in their wish to just create a great game.

 

They offer amazingly high quality product. Something PC gamers long dreamed for - even if they're not really into space sims.

SotA is nothing like that. SotA from what I read seems to be a disappointment even for it's very core audience - ex-Ultima players.

SC offers jaw-dropping quality product, SotA is disappointing from screenshots to actual gameplay.
That's a difference that overwhelms any similarities.
People, especially newcomers, will NOT back something that does not LOOK attractive. And SotA does not only miss in the looks department but most importantly - it misses in an actual gameplay.

I think you are right, and in terms of just raw "uniqueness for money" SotA definitely wins.

Better not.
SotA concept arts look lovely, an actual game looks like year 2000.
Star Citizen concept arts look amazing, and an actual game, models you get to play with, are even better than what people seen on the concept arts. There's just this attention to details that Star Citizen got all over the place. You can have a ship for half a year and still discover some new things about it, and admire just how much thought was put into it. You ever thought about any SotA model "wow, that's something designers really spent days thinking through"?

No, why would they? Everything you buy in Star Citizen will be available for everyone in the game itself. Heck: some ships people pay money for are actually going to be a starting ship you get basically for nothing at a very beginning of a game.

I hope I explained what's the difference well enough

Could they really? You looked through the addons store? SotA actually offers more varied items in greater number (of item types) and by far more unique, rare items than Star Citizen does. In Star Citizen you'll probably be able to earn next to everything in a few months of gameplay. SotA meanwhile offers stuff that won't be really available after some point. Heck: even silly land is something rare and very unique as no two players can live in a same spot.
Their monetizing policy never was a problem. It actually gives you better bang for the buck than Star Citizen does and in many ways is more attractive... only problem is that what the game delivers is by far less attractive. I would much rather spend 60$ or common Star Citizen ship than unique land in SotA - based solely on what game developers deliver.

That is a very valid argument, but the demand for sandbox-oriented MMO with immerse, living world is at a very least as large as one for space sim (which is a niche genre - RPGs are the huge thing, both: now and ever. Space sims never were). Right now the most popular video game in a world is in fact an MMORPG, so audience is there, and it is looking for a fresh experience, and there really can be done a lot to deliver that fresh experience to the people. But ask yourself this: what new, innovative things does SotA have? I would probably list chat with NPCs.... and that would be it. There's literally nothing to lure new players in. It's the complete opposite of Star Citizen for which a list of innovative features is so long I don't even know where to begin! It's one of the most ambitious and innovative projects in a history of PC gaming and from what I seen so far - they actually do deliver it, perhaps not as fast as I would wish, but quality is there, and amazing new stuff (eg. outstanding damage model that brings every competitor down to his knees) is there!

I never had any problems with finding what I wanted to find in SotA store. It is intuitive, it is quick and it works just fine. Yea, I would wish better descriptions for stuff and more images, but... it's all there.

As far as I see it - campaign was never a problem. They actually did a lot of good things in a campaign itself, such as making a cross-promo with Star Citizen or pitching to one of the legends: Ultima. Only problem is that what they were showing to the people and what ambition they had wasn't really what people wanted. And it's still not with little hope for significant, game-changing improvements. There's many fundamental problems with the game itself that don't really make people think "it's something worth backing".
Over 3 millions they collected after an initial kickstarter is actually impressing when you consider that this was the first image they promoted their game with, and this is what we are actually getting (I know, different building, but compare the depth and fidelity, just how much unknowns and will to explore you have while looking at the first image and than at the second?)

 

That seems unfair, given the stage of development and the fact that it's still not really 'a game' despite giving the appearance of being one. You can see the improvements in every release, especially if you don't log in for a while and then come back to it.

And if players are only interested in looks, how do you explain the popularity of things like Minecraft? No doubt some people would say it's the gameplay, in that case, and not the graphics. So why not give SotA an opportunity to develop its gameplay beyond the basics we have now? I'm not blindly defending it, but it IS still a work in progress after all. If the finished game doesn't deliver the sort of immersive story and gameplay we've been led to expect, then I'll be unhappy.

How many games really end up looking just like their concept art? ('Concept' being an important word there.) I would not have expected the in-game graphics to look like that anyway.

 

Star Citizen has a leg up because it is an underdeveloped MMO genre and a huge flight sim fan following that can be a different crowd than medieval fantasy based MMOs. So it is different.

But...it seem like further monetization could still be achieved in SOTA. Housing is great, but not all MMO gamers want to engage in housing. What's different about Star Citizen is that they sell what the players 'must have' (ships). What is the equivalent 'must have' for SOTA?

I think a lot of creativity could be applied here to create sellable items that the community might be interested in similar to we were with houses. Things like the following could be offered: 1) Limited character class (like a druid or lich) with a skill line that otherwise was very difficult to earn in game. 2) A playable orc full PVP-enabled character (human monster play) that was very difficult to earn in game, and 3) specialized weapons with some notable power and visual effects (e.g., a hammer that attracts lightning) that took some fair amount of time to earn in game. This is just a quick list.

The real question is whether the community feels we have too many entitlements with existing pledges now to accept that kind of selling, or if we would go for it.

 

Then what it is if it's not a game? Chatroom with cheap 3D graphics?

That's true. But ask yourself this: In which game you do not see an improvements with every release? Which game looks worse with every release? I can't think of one. Especially if you don't log in for a while and then come back to it.

Minecraft got "the looks". It's just very stylized, but it's also very consistent and done in one characteristic convention. Also take a note that these days retro-pixelated graphics are really popular on a market, so with it's stylization Minecraft definitely hit a right tone.

You can't use "it's in progress" as an universal excuse for everything. SotA is on a wrong track from the fundamental level. Problem is not with unfinished stuff. Problem is with the direction, ambition, and results so far.
I already touched this in a post above, and a little more in a post here: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/dont-know-were-to-begin.17148/#post-270250
but I guess it deserves by far longer explanation, and perhaps I'll get around writing a separate topic with my thoughts on that subject.

Then tell me this: What makes you think that they CAN deliver it, seeing what have been done so far?
And remember this: Kickstarter was completed on 7 April 2013.

Read my post above. Star Citizen does. It even goes beyond that: Models they deliver into the game look better than the concept arts. That's one of the major reasons why Star Citizen gets money and SotA doesn't.

Armors and weapons. They sell both.

 

The trick has been the desirability of ships. They are the fantasy sports cars of space and it is easy for people to picture themselves as the pilot of a ship. A lot of people grew up with The Last Starfighter, Star Wars, Star Trek etc. and daydreamed about what it would be like to fly these ships, and then Chris comes along with a trailer that shows you, the pilot, climbing into a cockpit and launching off a moving carrier into a space battle in an asteroid field. *cue money fountain*

I just don't know if it's possible to generate that kind of excitement for the RPG genre unless you really try to make a powerful impact at the start.
Where Portalarium can succeed is in their storytelling after release and pushing for the most authentic experience possible. Monetizing more things now will only make people more cautious about their authenticity.

 

Is that an Elephant?
You may be asking yourself, "What in the world is the ~Time Lord~ thinking about by bringing an elephant into this conversation?"
"Top Notch Fan Based Videos!"

The Wonder of the Visual...
Star Citizen has been a "wonder visual" in progress. It's fan base is no where near as involved in it's creative design and content as our SotA is. SC is all about "wonder" and everything that is visual. SC has a very geek YouTube savvy fan base, which has been pumping out "Quality YouTube Video" from it's very beginnings. This in large part is due to SC's grand visual appeal, which gives every video that is done about it, a top notch look to it, which translates into "I wonder what it will do...videos" where OooO's and Ahhh's about everything then creates a fascination to any geek looking to have as close to real as possible video graphics, to play with in an online game.

The Why and How of it All...
"Why has the MadHermit's Videos Been So Popular?"
"Why Was The Space Bard's Video So Successful?"
The answers to those questions is "Quality!"

Our Modern Times...
Some of us here grew up in a time of poor quality film, which we thought at the time was "Terrific!" Yet most of our young public (younger than me anyway ) are from the information age, where quality means you watch it, and where black and white movies are something that grandpa and grandma watch from separate beds with one foot on the floor until the lights go out Yet to those young people of the information age "if it's not in a quality video, it's just not worth watching while their showing each other all their tattoos

Our Evolving SotA Media, Wishing to Make Everyone a Star...

Avatar's Radio...
This is a team of people that have dedicated themselves to the promotion of every Player Based SotA Event, while providing top notch radio music that we can even listen to in-game! There are few, "if any like this" radio stations dedicated and infused into the heart of any game, as our Avatar's Radio truly is!
Radio was the first live anything in history, where everyone could stay, not only informed, but also entertained in a meaningful way together. Our SotA's Avatar's Radio is truly at the heart of every other media's future and current success stories.

The New Britannia Theater Troupe...
"Who would have ever guessed that we would have ever have had talking media production entertainment programing from all of our SotA Player's talents?" <---<<< These people did with a wave of community support as well as "Echoes from the Caverns Community Podcasts" http://thecaverns.net/Podcasts/
Just like "Firesign Theater" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firesign_Theatre or Orson Wells, "War of the Worlds", Our New Britannia Theater Troupe has brought quality production to every common SotA Player Fan Fiction they have brought to life! Not just by having one or two people reading the stories, but they have done it with entire casts of common player's voices being all gathered into all of their productions, "as if the entire story world was brought to life!"

So, "What is Our Next Evolution?"...

"The New Britannia Film Society?"
(Formerly known as The New Britannia Film Company... But that name sounded too much like real work or guild... It's now being formed just as The Theater Troupe began, where people from all over New Britannia that are interested in YouTube Video Productions of all kinds. Come and go, join in and help others, or helping your own quality SotA Production into a quality video... it's just like minded players that all share an interest in the art form.)
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/flash-mob-flash-dance-r12.16740/
This is hoped where our SotA YouTube Videos will begin to take shape into the full production quality they truly deserve If by doing this we can achieve some of Star Citizen's Quality Video SWAG, then this is where it could all begin. It's just a banner flying out in a field of "somethingness, that wishes to become something more truly special", where video artists from all over our New Britannia, can come and go as they please, yet when they do please, this is what will cause our world to shine even more so. Where video people can gather to create, or to learn something, this is where this banner will fly, calling to all others to join in all our SotA's fun

What May Come from This in Our Next Media Evolution?...

"The New Britannia News"...
Imagine for a moment a YouTube Video where a newsman, or newswoman is covering events, battles and everything that could shine under our New Britannia's Shattered Moon, where truly, "the sky is the limit!"
(PS Portalarium; When such a media does rise, it will be at the help of our creative staff to provide us all with an emote similar to the taking emote, yet with a microphone in our hands. "Build it Portalarium, and that time will come!" )

"A Full Length SotA Motion Picture"...
This is where our fan fictions and epic tales could take shape into something never seen before, where battle scenes and Shogun Epic Adventures could be easily produced, just as our New Britannia Theater Troupe has proven can be done!

Star Citizen vs SotA...
So, what does Star Citizen have that we don't?... The Visual...and what will our SotA have that Star Citizen may not have? "The Beyond!"
All that takes is us, you and YouTube...

And further more... "As Head Guest of Our Bear Tavern"...
http://www.thebeartavern.org/founders
hehe... I am inviting all New Britannian's and taking this chance on this thread and on our event's thread to announce that..... *dramatic drum roll*...

"We Are Crashing The Bear Tavern Brawl"
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/r12-bear-tavern-brawl.16914/
That's Right! We are crash party Flash Mobbing~Flash Dancing The Bear Tavern Brawl just after the fights are completed... That's November 30th 5:30PM UTC 9:30 AM PST...
There after the fights, we will be having a "Wave Tai Chi Dance" which will be a simple "follow the leader dance" where the leader begins the dance and all others follow each other in a ripple effect. The Tai Chi Dance is our strongest and easiest SotA dance move to repeat and do in a formation of of everyone attending.
So please come and invite all your friends to join me at The Bear Tavern Brawl <---<<< Because it's a great place to start!
and no... I haven't told the Tavern Keeper Vallas yet ... but I figure as the head guest, That I could Invite "a Few" Friends Over

There we will be shooting a YouTube Video of some of the fight scenes mixed with our dancing and finish the production off with none other than The Space Bards Music "The Return of Lord British", which the Space Bards have graciously allowed us to use for this SotA Music Video Event!

Now that's Quality!
~Time Lord~

 

That definately sounds viable to me, selbie. They are selling a dream. I am only in for an early pledge of 40 dollars, but when they revealed the concept sale for that superslick ship, the 890 jump, I was almost tempted to buy one for 600 dollars. The way they showed off that ship, you could really imagine yourself cruising the universe as some billionaire on his 300 million yacht.

 

It's not a game yet. It's a collection of systems for us to test. The full game is - that phrase you seem to dislike - a work in progress. It's not an excuse, it's the current state of the project.

As Starr always points out in his release instructions:

• Game Loop: Release 12 is a further iteration on our rudimentary game loop, but it is still very bare bones, even though we now have a rough first pass at player advancement. Expect this to expand with each subsequent release, but it won’t be truly complete until we hit Beta next year.

Because 'story' and 'immersion' - and, indeed, 'fun' - are not about pretty graphics, and because of the people who are working on the story of this game. We know it's being worked on, we just haven't seen much of it yet. I'm willing to trust this team, unless they show me they don't deserve that trust, and wait to see what they come up with.

I know that I could have a lot of fun just hanging out and roleplaying with my friends in the world as it is right now, even if no story was added or anything else improved, but I know not everyone is a roleplayer and they want 'a proper game'. I believe that's coming, it's just taking longer than we might like. I'd rather they took a bit more time and gave us something more finished than it might otherwise have been. But this is getting off the subject of the thread, so I'll shut up now!

 

Sometimes I wonder why some people are even on these forums.

 

Welcome to New Britannia Sky_walker.