SOTA's Target Audience is too broad.

Maybe Portalarium should take the current combat-, skill- and magic-system out of the game and create a separate competitive arena-PvP-game with it - "Shroud of the Avatar Arena". With a ranking system, different maps on which the PvP fans can fight themselves etc.
And for the current game they include a learning by using skill system like in UO, a combat system like in The Elder Scrolls and a magic system like in the old Ultimas. One can dream...

 

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I never said anything that a person of even con can beat another of even con. Have a fair shot? sure, but just being "equal" doesn't mean balanced in the sense of blow for blow, he who strikes the first one wins.

I presented "balance" in terms of abilities, not DPS.

We've had this discussion, on the forums, for many months. The minute you start to "balance" around DPS, you are going to get a crap system. Plain and simple.

Abilities, like a projected shield to deflect arrows, which at the same time causes me to be immobile, is situational, has a pro and con, and brings counter punches to the game (ZERO DPS).

That is balance. Not some trade off skill that just ramps my DPS up or his DPS down.

And this is not to say there can't be counter moves to the counters. That is the entire point of learning your skill set and crafting around situational combat. Not random glyphs IMO.

Do a search for the gimped nature of Magic users in this game so far, there were a ton of ideas on how to make some unique abilities that are in line with the SotA universe and not just more DPS button mash glyphs.

 

I have read through this thread and it made me feel a bit confused.
This isn't a pvp focused game, to turn it into that now would be odd.

The target audience seems to be generic computer rpg-fans who appreciate a strong story combined with a sandbox world.
There should be many players who would want to be part of that for a long time.
Especially casual players, ones who maybe can't play every day and not for long stretches of continuous time, because it takes a very long time for them just to go through the story, then add crafting stuff and look to their house etc etc.
Pvpers might be the ones who don't stay around very long.
I too am biased in my opinion since I fall into my definition of casual players

Combat for pve and story and thus pvp too will be ironed out and iterated upon, this is a first person rpg and combat can't be too slow then.
(I am not a fan of the card deck system, so I use the locked slot variant, was it Dallas-mode it was called?)
To be really good for pvp wouldn't the game have to be really optimized for that then, given that it is a first person game? I'm thinking performance, latency, server and engine and whatnot.

The devs could tell us (through short frequent videos) a bit more often and perhaps a bit better about what feeling they aim for in different aspects of the game, like story, questing, crafting, whatever - that would be very nice and good.
Mr Garriot would be my choice of storyteller.
But it really isn't combat that the devs need to talk to us about. It's everything else.

Based on what we get to play in the current Alpha-state and what we receive in the update-emails I too feel a bit uncertain about what the devs want to achieve.
I have expressed that on the forums before.
I don't get SotA's "vibe" just yet, it's like visiting a construction site that is getting more and more beautyful and built up but you dont know what it will become just yet.
Hard core, non hard core, what does that mean, old school, new school, 1980's, 2010's, story, no story?

But if you view the E3 2014 trailer and look at the homepage they summarize the project in broad terms.

Quote:
"SotA is a selective multiplayer roleplaying game that combines a single player narrative with a sandbox MMO.
Play solo offline to experience the storytelling of classic ultima.
Or play online in one of three modes; solo, friends or open - all in one massive shared world where you control who you play with.
Quest and fight your way through an epic adventure in a vast multiscaled interactive world with over 40 hours of story.
The game is truly player driven with the best gear made by players and sold by players.
Consensual pvp with open pvp flags, zones, and guild warfare."

In my interpretation pvp is a small part of SotA, not a focus.
Reading on the forums and updates might make you believe that pvp, player owned towns and perhaps housing is the focus, but it isn't.
The storytelling sounds like it should have a much higher focus.


Again I'll say: the devs should try to improve the communication and talk about their vision.
Their vision - not the forumites visions.

 

I think we are all just theory crafting. Nothing in this thread will be necessarily part of the game. Anyway, it is just reasonable to think of balancing in terms of PvP.

Like Joxiex said above

That is the only truth in all of it.

 

Yeah this doesn't seem to be a pvp focused game. It doesn't mean pvp has to be bad, but I wouldn't expect this to be like Guild Wars 2.

I have seen a game go down the pipes because the devs listened to what a fraction of the forumers had to say. People would say things like "the game should be more like CoD," yet most of the players disagreed. In the end, the game ended up unoriginal and a large portion of the old fanbase left.

It's important for the game devs to give a clear picture as to what Shroud should be, yet also be open to criticism. It's not an easy thing to do, but that is the life of an artist.

 

Something doesn't feel right about this game. And for me this is the combat-, skill- and magic system. It's like they looked at other more casual MMORPGs and saw that skill trees are popular as well as hotbar-combat and then they had to include it, too. And of course cardgames are very popular right now, so why not put that in, too? And what MMO uses a spellbook with reagents in which you have to prepare spells in advance? I can't think of one - why? Because it would not be good for PvP. So SotA doesn't use it too to have a more common and casual approach to this.

Those elements don't fit into the game. They look like they are copied from other games just so that they are present in SotA, too. I didn't get the impression that they chose a combat-, skill- and spellsystem that would be best for SotA but a system that seems to be common in the genre and thus is recognized by MMO-players.

 

I actually agree with most of what you are saying here. It would be amazing to see a game where you open your spell book, use reagents, and prepare spells in advance. But how is that not good for pvp also? uo had amazing pvp and did precisely that....

 

Maybe because it is not fast enough. And you could get into situations in which you maybe have the wrong spells prepared or you run out of spells and then you would be cannon fodder...
The system we have now provides you spell after spell. They basically never run out... It's like shooting from a gun. Maybe a slow gun but still a gun with unlimited ammo.

 

ya current combat is trash...

 

and now we have turned into yet another pvp thread.....

 

so let me ask this how is this really any differant than in uo full lrc suit and a full spell book. took you less than a day to find a vendor that had full spell books and probably less than a few weeks to find a good modded spell book and withen a year you had the full set of slayer spell books.

where i like the tree system but dont like the skill allocation system,
not a fan of the card system but i play a locked deck currently which really is no differnat than hot keys in uo

where the skill tree and deck system is probably here to stay the efficency of it will more than likly be hashed over the next few releases. not all the combat systems and related stuff are in the game the combat now is more of a tester version of the final product every thing needs tweeking still. why are we so hung up on it now. we all click the agree button that we are in a constuction zone when we play. we all understand not are we only in a construction zone but we are playing a game way before people ever get to test a game normaly, to campare non flushed out system to systems that have been flushed out seems redicouls to me

 

That brings to mind Arena Commander in Star Citizen, which is a game within a game. There players can engage in a variety of combat scenarios without consequence. It has leaderboards, matchmaking, grouping etc.
It is a clever way for CIG to test out flight mechanics, weapons balance, ship handling, etc. in a way that is quarantined from the persistent universe.
I'm not sure how you would find a lore friendly way of doing an equivalent in SotA though, where all your reagents, armour condition etc. are restored after combat (and you don't level up).
I guess the equivalent would be something like "it was all a dream".

 

Arena style PvP has nothing to do with role-playing. This is an RPG. We shouldn't have to settle for bad PvP.

 

Why not? Couldn't you RP being a gladiator? There are ways it could be done.

 

Because PvP, by design, is a core part of the game...per the devs. Making it an arena sport creates bad PvP.

 

And how does having an arena effect any PvP outside said arena?

 

To be fair, PvP right now is basically bad arena PvP. The arena is just a different construct, New Britannia.

 

People are saying that instead of open PvP that can occur in different environments and situations, it should be limited to arena style combat. That would be great for people that don't care about PvP...out of sight out of mind. But it would result in PvP becoming a secondary system that wasn't really being supported.

 

Exactly.

 

Hey, Britannia in UO was just one big arena.