Lord Shaszahan's R13 Review

Lord Shaszahan’s R13 Review​

Hey guys! Well I’m new to the SoTA community but definitely wanted to start giving feedback in hopes of making the game the best it can be. As such I’m posting a thorough review of R13 from my experiences. I also plan to post similar reviews moving forward for each release. I hope these points make it in front of the devs or perhaps even RG (Lord British) himself and would appreciate any information pm’d to me on possibly sending this review directly. I think the points I make are backed with good reason and will certainly improve the game if attended to. So here it goes! (in no particular order):


Zones:

I had a couple of suggestions that would be great improvements in this area.

First, if a zone is directly adjacent to another zone (such as North Ravenswood and Deep Ravenswood) the gameplay mode (i.e. non-world map view) of these zones should be contiguous. Meaning, the player should be able to traverse one zone and enter into the adjacent zone via a natural pathway without ever having to go to the world-map view. This would make the game feel more expansive and offer suspense building for the player. For example, I enter North Ravenswood, and as I travel deeper in I realize I’ve progressively moved from North Ravenswood into Deep Ravenswood. Here the monsters are harder and general level of danger is higher as you “go deeper into the woods”. This would help with the current issue where the zones don’t have enough disparity in challenge level from one end of the zone to the next. The sections of each zone at present seem too homogeneous and, well… boring in this respect. This change would allow for suspense-building gameplay due to the now inherent disparity between challenge levels of adjacent and contiguous zones as a player moves freely between them without interruption in gameplay.

Secondly, many of the spawns are too thick in number and sometimes overlap too much with others types of spawns. Certain areas having a horde of skeletons may be appropriate, but most zones seem to be flooded from edge to edge with hordes of mobs. Graymark Forest is an excellent example of this flaw. The elves haphazardly spawn all over the zone. Call me old fashioned, but in UO you would go to the graveyards to fight undead. You would go to Terathan Keep to fight Terathans. You would go to Orc forts to fight orcs. So why are the spawns so arbitrary in many cases for SoTA? Why don’t the elves in Graymark Forest spawn in elven encampments? Sure there could be some elves out on patrol, elven scouts for example, but these mobs should be fairly easy and not offer very good loot. To get the good stuff you’ll have to actually fight your way past the scouts and into the elf encampment where the elven mages, warriors, generals etc. reside. Spawns in this fashion seem to fit better from a lore standpoint and it gives specific mobs a background that simply holds more substance. In the game’s current state it seems like a developer hovered over a zone and dropped spawn points all over it without much rhyme or reason and then moved on to the next. Currently the game feels like a theme park of zones in this aspect. You can just go to Graymark Forest to fight any of the various types of elven mobs that arbitrarily spawn all over the zone, for example. Wouldn’t it make more sense for more difficult mobs to be centralized to the zone and mobs (and potential loot from them) weaken as you move towards the periphery? Without a defined structure where a player has to fight their way into the zone to face increasingly difficult challenges, the zones will continue to feel like a theme park of random mob spawns which can potentially become boring quickly. To note, I’m not saying there should be complete segregation between spawns, but there should be something to the structure of the spawns that give different sections of the same zone a unique flavor. Lots of different flavors in a zone = good … the same flavor for the entire zone = bad.

As a follow-up to the previous point, I believe the individual monsters should be more challenging and less in number (this point does not apply to dungeons, only outside environments/zones). The reasoning behind this is most of the zone in your field of view can easily be filled with mob nameplates and the mobs themselves. It really distracts from the layout and geography (not to mention the level of detail) of the zone itself. There just also seems to be an unrealistic number of bears, or wolves, etc. in a given area. It also makes hunting them trivial. It would be nice to stumble upon a lone grizzly bear which actually poses a respectable challenge. So for example, instead of a group of three bears spawning in an area that would each drop one animal hide, have a lone bear that has three times as many hitpoints, beefed up damage output, and drops 3x the loot of a single bear from the group of three. This would make encounters more fun and interesting, along with providing less environmental clutter so the player can actually appreciate the look and feel of the zone. As another note, I’m not saying every zone or area needs sparse spawns. An area of a forest harboring a horde of spiders or undead to befall the unsuspecting traveler is great, but this should be the exception and not the rule. I remember running into that lone troll outside of Vesper in UO when you were still a fresh character was a bit of a heart-pounding experience. I have not yet felt that same kind of experience in SoTA. The closest thing has been the liches, but they are generally embedded in a sea of skeletons. It’s not like you didn’t see it coming by the time the lich is upon you.


Random Encounters:

In their current form these are just awful and the mechanic needs to be revamped or removed altogether. The reason is these are just plain dreadful and in no way fun or exciting. They currently serve as just a huge inconvenience consisting of: a loading screen, running to the edge of the mini-zone, and another loading screen. Now I fully understand the initial appeal of this mechanic as it is reminiscent of the “good ‘ole RPG’s of old”. However, this D&D/Final Fantasy style mechanic is just too outdated in is pure form to be worthwhile. It’s frustrating, boring, interrupts gameplay, and offers no real challenge or reward to the player… just inconvenience.

Furthermore, how is this mechanic really fundamentally different than a player traversing a zone who walks around a tall rock or dense thicket to find a pack of wolves on the other side? This pack of wolves then attacks the unsuspecting player. I mean let’s be honest, conceptually speaking these are the exact same kinds of mechanics; just one has loading screens and interrupts gameplay and the other is simply a surprise encounter.

Additionally, these random encounters force me into a mini-zone with obvious pathways at each end. Having these visual markers for the edge of a zone really feels cheap and cheesy, for lack of a better word. Honestly this is one of the compelling reasons that I think adjacent zones should be contiguous. Too many of these zone-edge markers make the game feel too modular and less expansive. Random encounters pop up more of these zone edge markers by design, and if I’m going to be pulled from the world map into gameplay mode, I should feel like I’m actually zooming in on that location on the map rather than being transported to a mini-zone whose edges are demarcated by a torchlight archway. I know very well the path I was traveling on whileon the world map-view didn’t have a torchlight archway every 600 feet. Thus it further serves to break immersion that I’m not traveling a vast landscape. At the very, very, least these zone edge demarcations should be removed. Just let the player run far enough in any direction to leave the mini-zone of a random encounter currently similar to running to the sides of the mini zone.

That being said, I do think the mechanic could be modified to serve a valuable purpose that would enhance gameplay. In my opinion, random encounters shouldn’t pull the player from the world map view for a few skeletons or wolves, as this is just lame. But imagine if you were pulled from the world map because a giant Ettin or Ogre was blocking the path? This would be an “oh ****” moment where the player is faced with a very real threat justifying being pulled from the world map view. Or what if a dragon descends upon you? These challenges could be difficult enough to where the player pulled in will need to beckon his allies to quickly travel too him, else the player isn’t going to succeed solo and will have to flee. Appropriately, the player should be rewarded for dispatching the foul ogre or other supreme threat. Since the reward would be high (and since it would be weird to have to face 10 Ogres blocking your path in a day as you travel around the world), these random encounters should be quite rare. I believe someone mentioned on the forums these could include quest elements as well; where the player has to complete a unique task (such as saving civilians from a burning house along the roadway by putting out the fire or breaking down weakened wall sections, etc. etc.) rather than simply slaughter a few skeletons or wolves. Without changes such as these, the random encounters should just flat out be removed. They offer no value in their current form, only frustration (unfortunately despite the exciting text added for these random encounters in R13).

Another suggestion for the random encounters would involve PvP. I am not sure how easy it would be to implement, but if two players traversing the world-map view are flagged for PvP and the server recognizes that both players cross each other at the same spot, it would be completely awesome for a chance (5% 10% ?) that both players could be pulled into the same random encounter against each other! No mobs, just a straight 1v1 (perhaps even group v. group) player encounter.


Combat/Skills/Quests/Graphics:

Although I planned on mentioning a lot here, I feel these systems are still too far in their infancy to warrant a real critique. For example, I don’t know what graphics are still placeholders and which ones are considered final or near-final products so commenting would be useless. The same goes for quests and skills at current. I will say in regards to combat (and this has already been mentioned by someone on the forums) that I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time watching my skills bar to stack combos than getting to actually witness myself fight my target. I’m not going to comment one way or the other just yet on whether this is a good or bad system, but an easier or more efficient way to stack may be warranted if the current system remains. For example (and this ignores whatever keybinds the game already utilizes, but it’s the point that counts), let’s say I have a fireball pop up in slot 6. Perhaps the number 6 can be depressed to use the skill like normal, or one could depress “F6” to force stack any other fireball cards into slot 6 without casting the spell. This way we could avoid a pure auto-stack system as similar cards pop, which to me would seem a bit lame, but we could also establish a much more efficient stacking system than clicking and dragging with the mouse. I would also be able to keep my eyes on the combat more, as when I see a fireball pop up in slot 6, I can hit “F6” to stack if desired without taking the time to browse my entire current bar and watch myself click and drag skills to stack in the middle of the encounter.


Things Done Right:

I always hate to critique without touching on the systems that are great. Both housing and gathering/crafting systems are phenomenal and their current trajectories certainly have them headed in the right direction. Also, secret passageways and switches/triggers that open up different areas of a dungeon is just... the best, in every way, the best. More of these and more complex switching puzzles, perhaps where time is limited, specific incantations learned from elsewhere in the game (quests/books) must be known to activate the switch, or multiple players are needed to complete the puzzle, would certainly be great for adventurers.


-Lord Shaszahan the Archmage

 

Welcome shanersimms! I see you came here two other times, but somehow your shinny newness was missed under the radar. A warm hello to you.

Nice write up!

 

Well, at least some of the things you point out as weaknesses in random encounters are just laying the groundwork for things that are already planned that are similar to what you suggest!

For example, rather than just a pack of wolves, there will be a more interesting encounter with a reward that will make it worth doing more than just running through, but also giving you the option to run through if you don't want to be bothered. Also, the chance of crossing paths with another player flagged for PvP pulling you into a scene has also been teased since almost the beginning of development.

 

Nice feedback, welcome!

 

Great critique and I have to say I agree with pretty much the whole write up.

The zoning/instancing between areas is by far the design element that bugs me the most. It breaks immersion and makes the game world feel like a series of rooms. Especially, as you pointed out, the areas where you are really just running from point A to Z.

I do hope Portalarium finds solutions to these problems. I also hope avatars get a huge makeover. Faces at least. Everything else is fine by me.

 

Think you all for the warm welcome! It is much appreciated. Yes, I did post a long while back when I first donated but figured I'd give the game some time to become "playable". Since I recently found a lull in my ESO experience and I heard things here were getting good, I figured I'd dive in.

I'm very glad to hear the feedback and let me apologize up front if I unknowingly regurgitate an idea that's already been tossed around. Hopefully I can get fully in the loop of what's gone on soon

I think your description of the game feeling like a series of rooms is a flawless description of what I feel is a major issue at this stage. Even original UO offered a seamless world to explore. I can't help but feel like the current system for SoTA is a huge step backwards even from a game design nearly 20 years old at this point. I mean I'm not completely against zones or instances or the world-map view/gameplay view combination, but it certainly makes the world feel like it has a lot less soul than it could otherwise if we weren't just hopping between rooms as you perfectly described it. However, if this system remains, there really needs to be some method of putting the soul back into the virtual world which I feel can only be accomplished by making some really (and boy do I mean really) unique zones and random encounters, etc. if SoTA is truly going to amaze players (and potential players at that).

 

Overall great post!

The devs are here on the forums reading feedback fairly frequently and they discuss things we bring up. If you can, look for when the devs are doing a hangout and you can talk directly to them then as well. But I also recommend breaking up some of these ideas in separate posts. If the feedback is still relevant next week with R14, post different posts in the R14 feedback sub-forum for combat, world building, etc. When a new release drops, they're reading those sub-forums closely to check for regressions or things they need to address.

I've been thinking the same thing. There is a little of this with certain scenes linked, but I'd like to see more wilderness scenes linked. And I'm hoping community crowd-sourced contributions can produce more wilderness scenes to fill in some gaps.

They haven't developed all the creatures that will be in the game. I'm not sure if the Hidden Vale will be a starter area in the game or something you visit later. They'll likely have to revisit mob placement in scenes later when they have more mobs/creatures and they have a better idea of how players might progress a bit through the game.

As I said above, I think mob placement is something that will have to be revisited, but even now they can take some very good advice from you on better clustering the mobs they have.

If you play single player versus multiplayer, it seems like you get the same number of mobs and the mobs are more scaled for multiple players in a scene where everyone wants a few bears to kill themselves. So plan on 10 players and put 20 bears there. But for single player it is odd and excessive. I wonder if they can scale the spawning dynamically based on the number of players present in the scene. If there is only one person there, then maybe there aren't 20 bears in a small area.

This feature was just added a month ago. Now that the system is in place, they can work on creating meaningful random encounters. The existing ones of being ambushed by monsters (that are often weak and not scaled to player level) are annoying. But if there were some NPC interactions, material discoveries, choices, etc. then it would be a different story. Fallout 1 and 2 had the best random encounters of any game I've ever played. I hope SotA takes a page from their playbook.

 

Not a big fan of the random encounters either. I think it's the loading screens that kill it for me, not the actual encounter...

Less loading screens, please.

Also, this:

 

Welcome Shannersimms. Wow what a terrific write up. You have some great ideas and I could tell from reading it that you were very open to the game and that you already care about it. That is great to see in someone new. I look forward to reading more
from you.

 

Hi valdric, oh you are so not alone on this. We all wish for less load times. If you watch the last Dev
hangout they talk about it. Some things they can't adjust yet because it would be double work since
they are moving to the Engine improvement pack Unity 5. So Chris Spears states that we should
start seeing improvement over the next few releases, probably not for R14 since the transition is
just beginning. So we will get there just not for a couple or so releases. Sorry if I referred
the Unity 5 transition incorrectly, I wasn't sure if it was an engine upgrade or just like an
expansion pack for it, but hopefully you got the point.lol

 

Excellent review shanersimms.
Thanks for posting it.

 

Welcome shanersimms!

 

Hey everyone, a huge thank you to all the new warm-welcomers!

You make some great points Enderandrew. I realize much of the game is not finished and my critique was meant more in the sense of "these current mechanics I experienced don't seem to be headed in the right direction" as opposed to: "these specific mechanics of the game stink and should be removed" lol From the sidelines there's not much way to tell which elements are closer to their final product and those that aren't, but for the sake of feedback I took a stab at some of these systems anyways. I realize some things may be so far from their final form that commenting on them from a dev's point of view isn't helpful. Again, my goal was to just provide feedback and I'd rather err on the side of too much feedback rather than not enough xD

Overall I do agree with most of your responses. However, I'll have to take the other side on the dynamic spawn concept. I will say it's a great concept on paper and Darkfall 2.0 actually utilized this mechanic where spawns would be thicker based on the number of players. Here is where this system fails:

Imagine you are a new character and you stumble upon an area where you face a horrifying Ogre. You try to take him down but he's far too powerful at your current level to take down. So then you go and grab 2 or 3 of your friends, who are also new players and you go back to the same location, but now since there are 2 or 3 of you there are now 2-3 Ogres and again the challenge isn't accomplishable. So then you go out and find a veteran player to help you out. You and the vet player go to the location, so 2 Ogres spawn and the vet player proceeds to three shot the first Ogre that spawned due to his presence, and then immediately helps you with your Ogre and proceeds to 3 shot that Ogre as well. Either outcome is not fun, and for maximum effectiveness of the encounter for such a mob would require a very narrow window of specific character level or number of players.

Furthermore, that vet character who 3-shots Ogres may want to go to a spawn and tackle 20 Ogres at once, but this many won't spawn because only 1 player is present (himself) in the area.

So basically with either a dynamic spawn system or without one, individual spawns are going to have to have their difficulty level tailored in a way to where there are specific spawns for each combination of character level and number of players. Since this has to happen regardless, adding in a dynamic model is just a lot more work I think.

Instead I think it would be easier to have concentrated areas of mobs in a zone, such as an Ogre cave in this example, where there are a ton of Ogres that could satisfy the lone vet player, or the group of 5 new adventurers in terms of desired challenge. Outside the cave could be lone or various small groups of Ogres that can satisfy the challenge level of 1, 2, or 3 of the new players. Having a variety of concentration levels of mobs would accomplish the same goal I believe as a dynamic spawning model, would be easier to implement, and in my opinion would add more character to the specific zones and their layouts. Having mobs density spawn based on the number of players would make each environment you go to look highly similar in terms of mobs concentration. (i.e. I'm alone so every spawn point I go to only has a single mob, or I'm in a group so every single spawn point has a group of mobs) As is probably obvious I'm a huge fan of variety between each zone, and even different areas of the same zone, to where each area has it's own unique look and feel. A dynamic spawn model normalizes all of your worldly encounters in a way that I think detracts from potential variety among these zones and areas.

Edited for typo! 0.0

 

Great to hear. I did not know that!

I need to watch more of the dev hangouts for sure.