Advocacy for PVP!

the point I was trying to make is that Richard Garriott already had the perfect game and he knew it. UO PRE T2A is still my favorite game ever made. EA took it and turned it into a non penalized cookie cutter game. my comment DEATH TO THE ROLE PLAYER was sarcastic. I put it in there because the cookie cutter games put your mind on auto pilot to just harvest and be rewarded. even in lots of LARP leagues there's gain for being a evil character. being a role player adds so much more to the game. even if your goal is to try and kill and loot everyone. To a degree you have to be role playing in order to play the game in the first place. other wise you would go and play a FPS instead and not invest any time into learning the game, leveling up and acquiring wealth. Richard also had systems in place that made it harder for you to be a PK'er and still be effective such as not being allowed in the towns and cities and harsh stat penalties upon death. On top of that you had bounty boards for all the top PK'ers which made it an adventure for the good people of the world to go hunt them down. These were some really great features that made the game diverse and unique compared to any game put out today. The feel I get from Shroud of the Avatar now is that its much like age of conan mixed with a play style of UO. Which people will play but it wont make it enough of a Hit to last a long period of time like UO. But I'm really hoping Richard goes back to the roots of what a true RPG is.

 

Rose colored glasses.

 

Well Redfish i was playing UO on Chesapeake, and the reds roll played bad guys and we played good guys, if killing me wasn't RP then there was no reason to kill me in the first place! We all RP'd If he was a murderer, and i was justice (and executioner) i hunted them! i Rp'd quite a lot, they had every reason to kill me off, since i would hunt them! That was RP, sometimes we even let them know we were having events, so that they would come to try and kill us. So on my shard we actually RP'd.

 

Bullpoop.

EA bought Origin Systems years before UO even began development. There was no "Evil EA" stepping in an messing everything up because they were there all along.
Richard has many times talked about the lack of foresight that led to the necessity of Trammel and has vowed to never repeat those mistakes... and they won't be repeated in Shroud of the Avatar. Here is an example. Another UO developer, Lum the Mad, speaking on the subject can be found here, "The Unbearable Darkness of Ultima Online".

 

Then the people undid the mistakes of making trammel and made Pre Trammel free servers that were a huge hit! lets face it the MMO genre is dying. you have Blizzard tossing out there MMO idea "Titan Project" for an FPS shooter that resembles a shooter based league of legends. you have MMO flops all the time, where they get huge hype and then fail months after the initial launch *Cough* Tabula Rasa. Then you have Games like UO, WOW and EVE online which people are still playing years after launch. both with large PVP base and PVP reward systems. The BIG thing that these long time games have is a way of creating a personal story for the player and not a quest driven storyline. I still remember the first time I played UO. I was running around in the forests around Trinsic killing rabbits with my friends when a player in full black armor came up and cast earthquake and killed 2 of us and left the other 3 of us at low health. We gave chase and tried to kill him. we had 2 more skilled players help chase him. long story short he killed us all in a place far north of Britian. We didn't know where we were. but the fun of chasing him down was just be beginning of a multitude of stories that I had from the experience of the game. I don't remember my first experience's with any other games including the SOTA Pre Alpha. Now having said that you can still have dance off's, dungeon runs or even player housing. but none of these are any different from any other MMO out there. So tell me what's going to make this game a success that stands the test of time? the fact that its harder to play? ( which will probably turn away most inexperienced players more so than thief's or PK's ) or is it going to be how immersive can you make the game? how big can you make the world? or is it going to be the way you feel when you play the game?
for me I've pledged money with big hopes that its going to make me feel like I'm in a real world where I can take or have stuff taken from me. If it doesn't give me this feeling I'm not going to stick around and play it and I think a lot of people will abandon it like most new MMO's out there. Only so that a few people can enjoy the comfort of keeping their items, like in every other game.

 

Nice post Chizzang. Can't say I agree completely, but I am there 90%. It just reads real nice.

 

Those servers being free had nothing to do with it.

 

Head to head combat isn't rock-paper-scissors. Although it is another trinity, armor-firepower-mobility with combined arms thrown in. I think SotA is trying very hard to make me and a lot of other people very happy with this.

There always seems to be a derailment in PvP discussions, caused by the loot subject being brought into it
Even the most blood thirsty Bloodclans only want a few gold, from my reading. These Urk Role Players have code that is followed to the letter, unlike other RP groups. I hope to do battle with them here.

I'm keeping my dark sunglasses on, others can keep drinking their own Kool-Aide.

 

Nope. They were fine tuned to that period and drew many players, and some even turned over some decent coin....purely for maintenance and up keep.

 

PVP what is it we need to enjoy PVP?
What can we do as PVP to make our game good to us?
What kind of changes would Us PVP like to see in the game?
So what do we PVP think would be good for PVE only? (what would get us to turn off our flags and go into a PVE only environment?) What could PVE have that is solely theirs and only in PVE form?

 

Yeah we have a winner we have given PvPer what they want

As stated by blaquerogue ; "PvP is all you need to enjoy PvP" you got it , enjoy it there is NO need to add more, Tada.

You have plenty of space and lands specifically designated so you can PvP that ALL YOU WANT, so any more replys can now be ignored

 

OK so back to the PVP people please post all about these questions

PVP what is it we need to enjoy PVP?
What can we do as PVP to make our game good to us?
What kind of changes would Us PVP like to see in the game?
So what do we PVP think would be good for PVE only? (what would get us to turn off our flags and go into a PVE only environment?) What could PVE have that is solely theirs and only in PVE form?

 

Maybe you forgot to read the OP and just wanted to attack me!? You should go back and read What the OP stated! (thats why i retracted my counter attack on you! I think maybe you need to read the OP before you start attacking people!?)

 

Although I'm a PvE I know blaquerogue as a honorable and helpful PvP fighter. With this thread he shows his serious commitment to PvP. We all should respect this, even if not everybody shares blaquerogues preferences. We all have the right of our own likings and PvE and PvP people should respect each other, as blaquerogue and I do it

 

PVP what is it we need to enjoy PVP?
PvP is exactly what it describes...Player Vs Player. It covers a whole range of different systems for players to engage in; some systems are more attractive to certain than others. There will never be a consensus on how PvP feels in terms of mechanics, the only thing that can be done is to ensure that mechanics cater for as many different styles as possible. This would include controlled duels, arena battles with pre-combat options, guild wars, faction style systems and open non-rule PvP lands. Additional incentives could be added into all of these systems to maximize enjoyment. There are indeed very few things that all PvPers have in common.

What can we do as PVP to make our game good to us?
Have respect for other players gameplay......this isn't just restricted to the PvP community but it includes everyone having respect for each other regardless of what element of the game they enjoy.

What kind of changes would Us PVP like to see in the game?
As above, include as many different mechanisms as possible that caters for a wide range of PvPers.

So what do we PVP think would be good for PVE only?
In general I find PvE fairly dull due to the repetitiveness and predictable AI. Improving that would really increase enjoyment. A good example is the tether.....something follows me, hits the maximum tether length and turns back taking no further damage....makes no sense. I would also like to see more puzzles attached to PvE situations.

What could PVE have that is solely theirs and only in PVE form?
This tends to come naturally in PvE anyway in terms of dungeons and champs and everything that goes with them.

 

PVP what is it we need to enjoy PVP?
PvP in any of its forms is enjoyable to me from simply sparring with friends to a in-depth RP behind it to anything in between.

What can we do as PVP to make our game good to us?
Do what you enjoy, enjoy what you do.

What kind of changes would Us PVP like to see in the game?
hard to say right now, im happy with it at the moment, not to say as things develop that wont change.

So what do we PVP think would be good for PVE only? (what would get us to turn off our flags and go into a PVE only environment?) What could PVE have that is solely theirs and only in PVE form?

Ill agree with envy the predictability. I know i can go to x map fight x critter and win. I can go to y map and i need to becarefull. I can see that archer and know its going to attack with arrows. Id like critter be able to scale and match or random exceed my skill or a average skill of the party. Id like that random critter to be heard headed and chase me across the entire map if need be.

 

what is it we need to enjoy PVP?
purpose besides using gaming ai/armorbuilds against itsself. also environments that arent just a free for all sandbox.

What can we do as PVP to make our game good to us?
besides behaving ourselves? and like how?

What kind of changes would Us PVP like to see in the game?
make the damn thing already and we'll talk. right now there's no real good answer.

So what do we PVP think would be good for PVE only?
(what would get us to turn off our flags and go into a PVE only environment?)
the same thing that would make pvp interesting. choose order, chaos, or neutral and become the enemy of the other. neutral people get to be the ones you roleplay pvp against, maybe

What could PVE have that is solely theirs and only in PVE form
um.... everything besides hitting players is everyone's, using that line ' reason. so make an event that only friends can join in on, like borderlands. and the chokepoints idea is passable for that too.

good post btw. I wonder tho... pvp shouldnt have flags or counters or anything, really. Maybe the equiv. of the uo in-game boards would be needed to report someone as a jerk. It opens up a lot of roleplay possibilities. as previously discussed ad naseum. Ah, this was called a reputation system and couple that with an ELO set amount of points, and you got something.


The Hendoman

 

The green text is hurting my eyes, lol.

 

My humble 2 cents based solely on my personal opinion and nothing more....

PVP what is it we need to enjoy PVP?
PVP, without PVP gear

What can we do as PVP to make our game good to us?
Add factions and organized PVP motivations with honor.

What kind of changes would Us PVP like to see in the game?
A reason to PVP, casually.

So what do we PVP think would be good for PVE only? (what would get us to turn off our flags and go into a PVE only
- drawing blanks -

environment?) What could PVE have that is solely theirs and only in PVE form?
vanityitems like pets and mounts

 

Is one item or two and or ransom, worth it to any PVP to actually go out and fight someone to the death?

Ransom may or may not be worth it. I have heard nothing of OP rares being dropped as loot from mobs. As far as i understand it, the best gear will be crafted, so there will be nothing that is irreplaceable. I understand that even as the most skilled crafter, the most powerful gear may still be created with a narrow chance of success. For argument's sake, this gear could be equated to a rare drop.

That being said I would like to bring up the current thinking of many; that if such rares are in circulation, they will remain at home or in the bank under lock and key, perhaps donned on occasion, ceremonially, thus never seeing battle less it be looted.

Now if using mediocre gear for PvP battle becomes common practice among all ranks of avatars, it may or may not negate the purpose of "ransom". This is dependent on the who are what is determining the value of the ransom and the strength of coin at any given moment in the economy. If the ransom is undervalued, it will never be employed. Conversely, if the ransom is overvalued it may disincentivize PvP to many participants.
Let us say that the ransom will be determined by the victor. If the victor has a surplus of gold in supply there is no reason to offer any reasonable ransom to be afforded by the slain, even if the slain also possesses an equal surplus. The reason for this is creating a tactical disadvantage upon resurrection for the short term.

Can the powers that be, let PVE challenge each other to Duels, with no loot, no Virtue loss. but pride?
Can we not have Arena matches without loss of items or Virtues?

Certainly.

What are the reasons you personally want to PVP?

I plan to thoroughly comlete the story line of the game, craft at least one of each item available in the game, claim as many lots and decorate as many houses as I am allowed, and build a surplus of wealth, and am certain that I will achieve this well before we see Episode 2 come online. Beyond that, I fell the only viable enjoyment and challenge i can get out of playing the game will lie in my ability to compete and engage in PvP. Playing a game within a controlled environment adherent to a specific rule set against even the best AI provides a finite challenge. Using that same environment and rule set to compete against another human being provides challenge and learning that can last a lifetime.