Is there no General chat?

This is the best argument I've heard against a global chat channel. I am a huge proponent of the local merchant concept (fond memories of SWG here) and agree that a global chat could seriously undermine that unless well policed. But note that the same thing is going to happen with local chat, the temptation will also be there to use that channel as a primary sales tool for your local merchants. This means that as you roam the world, local chat may just be a change from one set of spam to another. So the argument really isn't against global chat per se, but against chat in general.

One way to mitigate that problem is to have a General chat channel and a separate Trade channel that is global. It's the global nature of the channel that attracts vendors. In games that don't have a trade channel but have a global channel for some other purpose, the global channel becomes overrun by trade spam.

A good example of a working model for this is Path of Exile. There is a global general chat AND a global trade channel and, while there is some occasional trade spamming in general, the player policing is enough to squelch it immediately and it really works. And that's an Action Combat game with a Diablo style community, nothing like this community. So it can work.

 

The real problem with communication in SotA at the moment is *not* the absence of global chat ...

It is getting someone's attention who is standing nearby. Adding global chat to the current interface would just make it even harder to chat with someone standing nearby.

Let's not forget that with the state being pre-alpha, the devs are (rightfully) more concerned with other things right now. They'll get to this issue and I'm confident it will be handled in a way that doesn't stop a new player from getting help. This game isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. If you think it is, you are not being realistic. Not everyone likes to put in the effort to enjoy the best things in life - many people want to put in essentially zero effort to just get some fun and then move on. It takes real effort to enjoy something like SotA (which to me is a good thing, but I'm not like most people and neither are the frequenters of this forum in my opinion).

Not to derail ... but to me, the 6GB min requirement (as one example) is much more likely to cause people to try SotA and leave because the client "works" with 4GB, it just crashes frequently. I've met several new players in the last few days who keep crashing and I ask them how much RAM they have and it is always 4GB. Very few people as a percentage seem to actually read minimum specs any more, they assume their machine will be good enough to run an MMO (which while this is selective multiplayer, it is viewed as an MMO by the outside world and even a lot of players in-game who don't come to these forums). I'm not sure if the min spec can be reduced to 4GB, but every time I play I get a warning that I'm entering a "construction zone" (that's a good thing) - anyone trying to join with less than the min spec probably should get a similar message IN BIGGER BOLDER TEXT (i.e. YOUR GAME WILL CRASH OFTEN, YOUR COMPUTER DOESN'T MEET MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS) ... maybe they do and I just never see it, not sure.

 

As unpopular an opinion as it is around here, I still have to agree with Wanderlust, and say that I think I'm in the same boat as him.

Right or wrong, I think I'm hardwired at this point to need to see conversations happening in chat in order to feel engaged with an MMO.

Right now in this game, it feels pretty dead to me, mostly because there is no interactivity, and most people just ignore your attempts to strike up conversations with them in local chat.

Granted its Alpha, but other Alpha games feel more alive than SOTA for some reason, which I think has to do with chat and overall population.

I'm also concerned that vendors will have a very difficult time without any means to communicate their existence and draw in customers. With no "Trade" channel, and no other means of communication except local chat, its going to be tough times for a lot of vendors. Differentiation and advertising will become much harder.

In addition, the population of this game is very low compared to other games of its class, which I believe is contributing to the lack of "life" within the game.

We will see. I'm happy with the direction the game is going, and most of the systems as well, and I'm all in with my money and Lady Marshall account.

I'm just hoping the feeling of lifelessness of the game begins to improve, and that its much better by the time it goes live. Without chat, I'm not entirely sure how thats going to happen. Local chat just isnt cutting it ATM for me.

 

I have playing SotA than a worldchat was in (R5) I have no understand why is this not more in.
When all people make your yourself chattab then is not a problem.
A few people ask me for help i have no problem to help but i can't speak enough english.

Here minimum requirements from DS march 26.
R16!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z-svq1OvcZwViqGxFCKdjH3NCn2LTfLuGny5qaAqjTM/pub#h.eqf8mz9dcem
I play SotA for over 12 month with RAM 4GB, Win 7 64 Bit.
problems gives me only in Owl's Head and Ardoris while long loading times and when i have to many other programms opened.
I play SotA with fastest settings.

 

Pick your poison...

/join #LOCAL (default channel)
/join #PARTY (your current party)
/join #GLOBAL
/join #New_User_Help
/join #SotA_IRC_Official
/join #Trading
/join #Pickup_Groups
/join #Guild_Recruiting
/join #<NPC town name>
/join #<POT town name> [optional_password]
/join #<guild name> [optional_password]
/join #<private group> [optional_password]

As I said previously, and have dared the devs to do...just embed an IRC chat client. And then separate NPC conversations/barks out of all that.

 

If you want to see more "life" then my tips would be

1
to check in to the events going on almost daily
http://avatarscircle.com/community-events/

2
add as many "friends" as possible
you will see them go online and can start Whisper conversations to see what is happening

3
shop around for a guild
This is a test phase anyway so most guilds don't mind people trying them out and leave if it's not their cup of tea



If you want to get the attention from someone, I usually simply jump up and down in front of them. That way they will get both a visual and an audio clue that you are trying to chat with them.

 

In my book, Goobal Chat is not fot RPG GAMES. Just my point of view.

 

Items 1 and 2 might be helpful for me personally and I will take a look at them. Im also going to join the IRC channel mentioned earlier.

Item 3 is not something Im interested in right now.

 

I agree with Spoon nearly 100% of the time so far - but honestly, we can't expect a new player to go jumping up and down in front of people to get their attention. The devs need to fix close proximity communication and I'm sure they know that and I'm sure they will address it. It took me several days to learn to type "/L" to get back to local chat after sending someone a whisper. It has been easier for me to just invite a new player to a party and the first thing I tell them is "press enter then type /p so we can chat". I've met a lot of new players since I've been here (also a new player) and they all pretty much are in the same boat, they "don't know what to do". We don't need global chat to address that issue.

I've seen a lot of chatting in Soltown the last few days (my whole SotA experience is 1 week at this point). I've seen a lot of new players get help from Sophi (including myself: she gave me armor 5 minutes into the game) and others who just stand at the vendors at Soltown on "newbie patrol". The worst 2 things chat-wise were #1 guild advertisements (not really too spammy but it kind of surprised me) and #2 a pvp fight among the vendors with new players just standing there not really knowing what was going on. Both had the effect of dampening out the conversation that was already in progress among a group of experienced and new players. The PVP in particular made it impossible to follow the chat because of the constant stream of messages (I know about separate tabs but it's unwieldy right now, the interface is pre-alpha, it isn't finished yet).

I understand the issue of feeling connected but honestly after so many years of global chat ... SotA is a breath of fresh air.

 

Of course not. It's just what I do to get attention with the limited tools we have right now.
If I had something better I'd tip people about that instead.

 

Well in another thread regarding chat UI BurningToad came on and said they are aware of chat UI being a problem and he put it on the tasks to work on. I am a bit torn regarding having global chat and I will list my thoughts below:

1) so much of the charm of this game will be in the discovery of the world, perhaps finding the dead body and a single clue on it gets added to your journal to start an adventure...............Do we want global chat to say 'hey I found a dead body with a clue on it what do I do next?' and then answers galore stream across the global chat window. yikes. There is no way to prevent the answers from being told here and there but they don't need to be on a global chat window. I think if players need help there should be other options for this. I'm very in favor of having a Town Square in major cities that offer a bulletin board to post questions, get work orders, etc. There could be benches, little seating areas, and make it charming of course.

2) also to add to that....since this is not a game that will have quest markers above npc heads and truly is a discovery exploration type of game, it just doesn't fit it to have global chat. It would be like telling someone the ending of a movie, or how a book ends, or who won the game that you had recorded to watch later.

3) For help for how to for general gameplay for new players that is where we can be creative and perhaps use a town square idea to meet and greet. Have perhaps bands playing, or jugglers, or whatever, For those who are a bit shy put your question on the bulletin board.

 

Would be nice just to see a "Help" tab window in that chat box - and since we're having a theme of localization, maybe just keep the help localized too. Wouldn't think it would be that hard to set up another tab that says "HELP" and have it limited to the location. Then, if anyone needed help, they could go on to that tab and ask the question there. I mean, if it's a tab and it says "HELP" on it, I'd think as a new player, you'd think "hey, maybe I can ask someone here".

This chat tab would only have player chat allowed so you'd not see all that other 'stuff' - all pre-filtered for you. The new player would have an easier time seeing/getting the "help". And if they found majoria70's "dead body with a clue" and they asked in that chat window, it would be only to the persons already on that map. So, if you did go to all the trouble of going back to town to ask about majoria70's dead body, maybe it's all right?

Pretty sure there's bound to be people who would lurk on there just to help someone (no need to open a separate IRC window outside of the game) and when they finished getting help, they could just go back to their local chat tab.

If all we're asking for global chat is to help. For worldwide conversation, I'd have to wonder. Why can't my local (in the town/city/holding, etc) be more lively instead and why do I need the conversations of someone across the otherside of Novia to make it seem like I'm in a 'lively' world. Why can't it be that my local chat in that location would be more 'populated' with fun stuff? I mean, when I go outside of my house (not that it happens often, hermit that I am) and go visit the local neighborhood restaurant/store/mall/whatever, it's so noisy already. I don't need to hear/see/listen to conversations in China/Germany/Mexico to make it any more festive.

 

lol hmmm funny, no wait a minute 'majorias' dead body', so sad *cries* sheesh. Well truly I got what was meant by that comment, it just made me smile Well I see some possibilities in the help tab idea, and also I think if the player who clicked the help tab perhaps gets a flashing to the tab occur and clicks back on it that it would only be a chat between them and the responder to the call out for help. Well just a thought to add to my thought on that.

So I had another thought because we will be able to write in books, or so I took it that we would, perhaps in the town square could be a book vendor or someone with travel brochures (free to new people/tourists to show the ways of the land). Depending on which region they are in at the time would determine which brochures were available to chose. The menu would pop up and could say perhaps 'Navigating in Nova', 'Combat for Beginners', 'Tips for Adventuring in Novia'.

Ok sorry I see I am again derailing, please forgive me. I do that sometimes, get caught up in visions.

 

I love that idea about brochures - I think we'd need a rating system though so the new player would know which one(s) to start with - If I was new and saw 100 different "Where to start" guides, I would not think that helpful. But awesome leverage of something we know is coming soon - can't wait for the books.

 

A book ranking system? Like the SoTA best sellers list published each month for your perusal on the local bulletin board. Then you could go hunting down those books to read. A book hunt! My kind of hunting.

Besides fishing - which wouldn't really be hunting (hunting by fishing pole) but that's going off track

 

It surprised me too. But, well, it works, and it's just a simple web page, with nothing else to install, and basically most players hang out there, so... Why not? I keep a tab open even at work, and from time to time there are those impromptu nice conversations we all love.

The Avatars Radio page is wonderful on its own, however. 24/7 streaming, and the DJs are "VIPs" in SotA, often chatting live on IRC too. They broadcast events, too, with hilarious commentary, and general advice, and funny ads from the guilds/groups.

Unless paying the icelanders far more than 20 years worth of subscription with all the stuff I bought from them is being affiliated with them, then no, I'm not (yet) affiliated with them, besides havin written about them in the past in a local magazine. I just consider that game the best MMORPG around, with many unique features, lots of great ideas, and some intuitions unparalleled even now (I think of the game token of WoW, a copy of the PLEX concept). I'm playing it since eight years, and I'm biased to compare it with everything. Just that.

I hope they think twice about some (limited?) way to put in contact avatars from all the parts of the game. I don't know if a global chat is a godsend or a curse. I know I don't want to give up on such a feature so easily.

 

I definitely didn't read this thread word for word but read enough to get the basic points here and failed to see a couple ideas pop up that I feel need to be.

#1: NEW or New Player Helpers guild. Why not form a large guild with the purpose of recruiting new players and helping them learn the game, get geared up, and help pair them up with guilds that suit their liking (RP, PVP, PVE guilds, etc). This would help satisfy the "empty" feeling by having other players just as new as you to talk to as well as learn and work together and have more experienced players who offer some of their time to help the newer ones. This would also be good because if you get someone rude in the guild chat an officer can boot them from the guild or mute them as needed. Officers can host guild events and trivia games to help players learn the ropes and challenge what they already know.

#2: Addons. I'm not sure of Portalarium's policy on Addon support (maybe someone can post what they know about it) but I don't think it would be an entirely bad thing as long as there is some control over it. Having an optional IRC chat addon that anyone who wants can plunk into their client would be good that way they don't have to Alt + Tab everytime they want to watch the chat.

 

This isn't just about help. It's about a sense of life in the game for those of us who are used to live conversation in our multiplayer games. Nothing kills a multiplayer game more than a feeling that it's a ghost town that no one is playing. A stream of conversation counters that directly. For those who don't want it, don't display it. It's easy to uncheck the "Global" box and suddenly it doesn't exist for you. No spoilers, no spam, nothing that you are worried about. I honestly don't see the objection to that kind of implementation, a win-win.

 

You seem to be making a judgment about the "sense of life" in a game still in pre-alpha right at a point in time when 1) all of the players know their accounts are getting a full wipe in 2 weeks and 2) the most recent release R16 changed the starting point for newly rolled characters to a different continent island from where all entrenched characters are used to playing ... do you seriously expect the game to be just teeming with activity right now?

This game has a huge "sense of life" even with a small number of players - I wish you could see the goings on in Soltown this evening and it is not even a scheduled event ... lots of interaction and discussion and fun and connection and helping new players, etc.

In every game I've ever played (quite a few over the years), the global chat is absolutely horrible - your scenario is simply not a win-win, people who don't want it are essentially forced to use it for some things whether you admit that or not. The simple fact of having it destroys the very community feel of a game for me (I'm not trying to speak for anyone else). It's ok if you don't understand my objection - I seriously don't understand your feeling of connection to my memories of what always goes on in global chat. So we don't understand each other ... can we still be friends? I hope so.

Virtually every other online multiplayer game has it - it's ok that this game is different. SotA has a tiny number of players but the best community feel of any game I've ever played, early UO being a close second. Portalarium knows what they are doing and I support them 100% even when I don't agree with their take on certain things (I do on this one).

 

Thank you Hraw for a new persons perspective. **cheers** I too think the game will be full of life, and sometimes it is.we just have to get features in that giving us lots to do. As more things come in we'll se much more activity also.