I feel lied to by companies that do Early Releases.

Then lock your skills onto your bar and then they won't be random. The amount of skills points that it'd take you to properly lock your skills (and have sufficient focus) will end up costing the same amount as someone who's spending their points on a large amount of (random) skills.

I'm surprised you continue to bring that up when there's clearly another option available.

This is a balance issue; nothing more. The problem with players eyes going all over the place is mostly due to the randomness of the skills, if you lock your skills, that particular issue doesn't exist... or, at least, is no longer caused by the randomness of the skills.

They'd need to rework on how you can perceive your buffs and debuffs, but, that is also not related to the randomness of the skills. That's primarily on the design of the skills themselves (and their visuals).

To reiterate. The issue isn't the system, it's the implementation.

But, then, why limit it from level 30? It's such an arbitrary number. Why not balance the game so that even level 1 characters can compete? This, however, is an entirely different conversation.

 

Hmm, seems to me that Origin Systems Inc might have done some good.

 

haha, nice pun there

 

Unfortunately, past experience has convinced a lot of people that continually pounding on an issue one doesn't like in a public forum has a high chance of getting results. The people who disagree with the naysayers usually don't continually re-iterate their support with the same level of enthusiasm. Of the people I've met in SotA, more really like the random deck than don't. And a lot of people who don't or who are on the fence are not leaving the game over it. The intensity of negativity, assumptions, opinions stated as fact and exaggeration here related to this issue makes no sense - options are good, it will be balanced just like everything else that is currently unbalanced. But don't be surprised, the same people keep pounding away in every thread they can because they know Portalarium is reading it all.

 

The speed and amount of abilities to use in a random/hybrid deck plus combo/stacking options (which may get fixed for locked hotbars, we'll see - don't know how without having drawn cards, though) plus the cooldown penalties and lack of skill options of the locked deck mean it isn't an option. Top it off with the fact that by the time you invest heavily in Focus to pull off a wimpy, castrated 10-slot lockbar with any modicum of efficiency and try to match it with deck switches to benefit from more than 10 hotkeys you quickly realize you have no skill points to invest in anything more than 10-12 skills anyway.

I'm surprised you continue to defend the locked hotbar when it is so clearly a pitiful, unimaginative effort to appease those who hate the card system.

It's all of it. The deck system, by design, requires you to look at your "hand". You cannot combat while just looking at the enemy, as you don't know:

1) What is 1 this time? Or 2? Or 3?

2) And, do I even have that ability available to use?

The random skill availability is removed from a locked bar, yes, but with the other penalties and drawbacks, it just makes you a glorified NPC with your 4-5 abilities. Kind of short changes the marketed greatness of a flexible skill system when you can't really mix and match skills because your hotbar only has 10 slots, and most of your points go towards making the UI somewhat accessible and/or simply making your cooldowns less than the entire fight.

If it is balance-based, and the locked hotbar becomes competitive with the random deck, then fine, great, hooray, but what would be the point in the random deck at that junction? Most players won't use it if the locked hotbar is truly competitive. Right now, I can see the locked hotbar being used in larger groups where they can just sync dump their abilities, but even so, I imagine having a bunch of 5-stacks of any kind would be more effective if sync'd.

Fair point, but Level 30 is at least pragmatic. While you could go PvP and/or PK as a fresh spawn in UO (the Bobs were notorious for it and prided themselves on newb PK characters), it wasn't practical. But get your skills into the 70s? You could at least train your stats up to survive some punches and offer your somewhat inaccurate swings and shots to the cause. You weren't left out until you grinded away 20-30 more levels.

 

Just because you're sitting in a shopping cart, it doesn't mean that the idea of a car is bad.

I'm not defending it, I'm bringing it up because you seem to omit its existence. Considering that everything is implemented in the skill trees, the locked hotbar is very much part of the system and I would hardly call that unimaginative.

Balance is a tricky thing and that's why you don't see it as an option. It's there; it merely doesn't work properly.

If it becomes competitive with the random deck, then that would mean it will be on even grounds in terms of overall practicality. Thus, both methods will have their merits... such as the random builds allowing more utility in combat and the locked builds allowing more precision. Or however they want to balance it.

If it becomes over-powering, well yeah, people won't think much of the random deck. However, if that ends up being the case, you still get a sense of progression from the mechanics due to having to gradually invest into the skills to do so and allows un-orthodox builds to arise on the side.

Another way to alleviate the problem is by removing the need to keep track of your buffs and debuffs at the top-left corner of the screen because it's really the fact that you're looking at 3 different areas on the screen that's causing the problem. Getting that number down to 2 wouldn't be that much of an issue. It'd still be an issue, granted, but it wouldn't be horrifically bad.

UIs don't make a system, they only communicate it; that's why I believe that the combat system itself is solid yet still needs a tremendous amount of work.

The forums isn't a good enough sample to determine whenever people like it or not as you're more likely to find people who like it... because that's why they're in the forums in the first place. The minority that you see in the forums are just those who have issues with a very specific thing.

If a lot of people don't bother communicating their likes and dislikes, it essentially means that they don't care. If too many people don't care (the amount is Portalarium to decide), then one has to reflect on their design decisions. They may not be bad decisions, but you'd have to question them regardless because your game is then considered "not good enough to bother" by said amount of people.

Meaning you can't necessarily disregard the unspoken opinions of those who don't play because those guys are more brutal than the so called critics.

The thing is, @Dewderonomy has good points in the sense that, in its current state, it's pretty horrible; I merely disagree with his conclusions.

 

From my viewpoint, the only thing that could be considered horrible is the balance (and even then I think horrible is too strong of a word considering we are in pre-alpha). The random deck idea is innovative and fun (even in its current state). And it is possible to watch the fight - you just have to be very focused. A lot of mmo games have a similar lack of immersion (i.e. if you play certain roles such as support/healer, you are constantly watching party members' health bars and buffs/debuffs rather than the fight itself anyway, especially in PVP land). The point is that the people who like it have said their opinion and then go off to contribute in other topics. They don't try to make every issue about the combat and continually pound negativity. And also, regardless of how poor a forum is as far as samples go, devs for other games have changed course simply because of noise in their forums. Hopefully, Portalarium has better metrics (maybe how many login attempts there are one day after R17's release as compared to R16's ... and R15's, etc.).

 

Thats why we work so hard so that people who are the most vocal against having more open rules to accomodate all UO players in one place understand why we desperately need this freedom.

Look I really don't wanna sound freaky, but I was told by Xorinia to come here and try to "deliver" a package of information, a whole bunch of information that was meant for "our community" the thing is that I'm now being treated as a nobody and I don't know if people even want to be part of "our community" and if they really admire the work that was made with UO and how it affected the imagination of many. I'm not even trying anymore, I don't re-read myself and just say it how it is, cause I've tried being polite before.

How low do I have to kneel oh king of this great country, for you to maybe open your heart to the pain and virtue that with patience gave way to light into my nerd gamer's life ?

I'm not asking to be an emperor (quote) I don't want to be an emperor... (Charlie Chaplin)

I think a better world is possible, one where people won't care that we're still in pre-alpha cause they'll know we'll have the same variety and diversity that we had in UO and more, so that the world looks up to this game and says, wow what a bunch of warm hearts and young hearts... no pretense, no elitism, just a campfire made with kindling chipped piece by piece... a real lord British game, a connoisseur's game... a polished idea that does not ignore your best two fans. This game would not have trolls and griefers, because it would empower the virtue in the player (quote : Baron Fondorlatos) and the strength of the community would overpower the strength of exploits and obnoxious cleverness...

Cause we'll be united, under democracy and what makes a old school LARP right...

Xorinia said it !!! I'm not kidding :/ I'm not chanelling or having hallucinations here, this was the direct result of Ultima Online and crazy ingenuous and malicious texans I had visions and dreams when I played UO ok... don't judge me, try not to laugh I been ridiculed so much my entire life... I loved many roleplaying games when I was younger, but UO... whew it was quite a ride for me and I'm lucky to have been part of it all as a seer.

But thats my job, I see, you see ? So tormented I am, and I'm not even to pity compared to Xorinia, how in heaven is it possible that her disciples have spread so thin and vaguely reminiscent ?

try to understand my anger, my vehemence, my oblivion... let me "be myself" for a moment as much on this forum than in game, let the screen shake like in the intro video...

See the young paladin with bright eyes ? Shine on you crazy diamond...

 

I can't of course disagree with your anecdotal experience, but if the current poll in this forum is any indication, more forum users are against it than for it. And that would fit with my anecdotal experience. Most of the players I've come to know, even the rabid fans, have conceded that "combat sucks".

I think it's probably too late to change so I've given up pounding the drums on this one, but I think the gimmicky aspect of trying to shoehorn a CCG concept into an MMO is not going to go over well in reviews and the word of mouth on it will probably be disastrous. It adds nothing but novelty to the game and takes away so much more. Um, there I go, pounding the drums again. Forget I said that, never mind!

 

I guess we're calling out again... so much honesty, this is so interesting...



but why no followup ? whats up...

 

Everything you beleive should be challenged... exept by the guy who's been sent by Xorinia

 

I wish Garriott would have enforced his original guns and beliefs regarding Shrouds combat system, though.

He has a great imagination.

I understand why he puts child killing in his games. It is truly a genius idea, and I say that not in a macabre sense, or dark or to invoke hysterics, but rather it is a true moral choice that literally moves you, and can bring brothers to blows or to tears.

It is the only 'thing' in a video game that ever moved me to a profound stutter from moral carelessness.

Canibalism would be another great idea I pray he'll put in SotA.

I was stunned and thrilled to learn so many community members spent considerable time in personal reflection on such themes.

 

Yea I mean its amazing, and noone forces him to be that honest...

Thats why I want so much this game to be like his real vision, because everyone past and present that passed through this community is part of it, without them I can forget my illumination and visions and emotions.

Theres a reason for everything... and everyone !

 

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

I agree that getting higher levels and more access to skills gives the feeling of progression. I don't agree that the UI should go from "barely functional" to "more accessible" by investing hard earned skill points through the Focus tree. The UI should be amazing, customizable, easy to use, and smooth from start to finish. I simply have no faith at this point they will pull it off while balancing both hotbars, particularly when one hotbar relies so heavily on the Focus skill.

Agreed that it doesn't make a system, but it can break it. And while you say it wouldn't be horrifically bad, it can't be bad at all; it has to be good. People don't care if Portalarium is a small team or made up of industry legends from the 80s and 90s; customers want product, not excuses. They may say, "I'll give it a go later on." Well, there're a lot of games that will come out between now and whenever that may be. We want those customers now, not later on when it may be too late, and the current system isn't just a matter of lack of polish - the core mechanics don't instill much faith that it'll get better for many of us.

 

I believe that there's already a huge focus on the... focus tree regardless whenever or not you have a locked hotbar or a random one. There's a good amount of skills in there that facilitate the random play.

Right. I was merely pointing out that there are other aspects of the game that affects the overall functionality of the system. If you can't find a solution by changing one element in a big way, then a good tactic is to change many different elements in smalls ways... and let the iterative process take its course.

As far as wanting the customers now, it doesn't matter when you get the customers so long as you attract them when you're at your best. Which is the issue with most crowd-funded projects... you're showing a game in its development stages to your customers when, normally, you'd show it to them when it's feature complete (beta). It's a huge contrast from practices back in the day; you wouldn't do that to your customers at all due to the risk of showing them a buggy game.

You get money faster at the risk of losing your customers before your game has a chance. So the question is why the project needed to be crowd-funded in the first place and that, knowing Richard Garriott's position, is something I have a hard time understanding.

 

I fixed your quote

 

LOL! Love it Moonshadow! Very apropos!

 

The best thing to do with your time at this stage of the game.

1. Give solid feedback.

Make suggestions for improvement.​

​

2. Make new friends!

This is so awesome because there really isn't much else to do. Nothing else you build now will last, but your friendships will. Launch Day will be so awesome because instead a brand new MMO with strangers, we will have established a community already. Huzzah!​

 

This is a friendly bump from 6 months ago. I was thinking about this post and how people actually responded to it. Just wanted to bring to people's attention that this is still in pre-alpha with no true beta in sight. This simply reaffirms that feeling of being "lied to" from, what, years back now?