Can we DODGE?

Just wondering if this will be a user activated combat mechanic or an automatic avoidance modifier? I personally would like it to be a user activated action. (this also relates to aiming system)

If a player could actively dodge how would this impact PvP? and PvE (could monster dodge attacks?)

Just curious to know what people think

 

I hope this is automatic based on attributes and/or skill. User activated dodging would be more twitch-based and that is not what I am looking for in an RPG.

And yes monsters should dodge too. I am big on NPC / Creature equality and they should be able to do everything we can.

 

I see that people are turned off by twitch mechanics but how about if it was a back-step/coupled with a modifier? My dislike for auto based avoidance is that it makes me feel like I'm at the mercy of gear.

 

The reason I dislike twitch-based is that I am older and I don't need the hassle of fighting with someone just on how fast they can push a button. I like things as much stat driven and possible which is how you make the game as fair as possible across age groups and disabilities.

There are shooters and platformers for twitch which are for competitive mechanics. For action-RPGs I usually prefer single player. Since I want to play multiplayer in SOTA, I will hope for as little to none twitch-based mechanics as possible.

 

I hope so. It's in most modern games like Tera, gw2, Neverwinter.

I despise passive avoidance where you stack some stat and win.

 

I get Umbrae, there are others on the forum that have express similar feeling for the same reasons - I'm not after a button masher style of game play - I guess what I'm looking for is game-play that makes me feel like I am an active part of the survivability of my character beyond my ability to properly equip/design my character.

 

Probably be hated for this, but... You could add a rune for dodging in the card deck which you could click on to dodge. Then you have control, and this is more strategic than twitch since you have to stack dodging in your deck.

Most game which have twitch dodging, even shooters/fighters/etc, I just end up never using it.

 

I have no problem with back steps and manoeuvring. That said, I wouldn't want this to become some type of Street Fighter game or one of the console based MMA games, where you can dodge and do all kinds of fancy timed moves. Last summer I was ranked in the top 10 in the world for submissions in UFC 3 and I was a member of the main Chapter Black fight camp on the PSN, so I can absolutely handle games like that. So I'm not against those types of games, but I would rather SotA have an RPG feel to combat. Even though it won't be turn based it should have some kind of feel that your character's power is not totally based upon your manual control, but the character's skills we choose should play a major role. I still think there should be skill on our part, but more complex strategies should come into play in SotA that is not possible in UFC 3 for instance.

I would rather have the decisions we make with the runes/cards so that we can execute special skills or abilities with a statistical likely hood of occurring at the proper time. More strategy, but still require skill. So I'm not saying they should create a game without the need for skill to be good, but as an RPG the skill should be in our strategy and creativity rather than primarily on our eye hand coordination.

 

First rule of combat: Move first! Block 2nd.

Just standing still and letting people hit you isn't very... wise. I should hope there's at least a dodge animation to play for when an opponent misses you.

 

That is also why I'm not against an auto dodge that is not activated by the user pressing a button. If there is a dodge skill then our ability to dodge should be based on the character's skill level. Just like parrying should be based on our character's skill level, and not how quick we are with the parry button. This might seem outrageous to some gamers, but this is an RPG. For instance in D&D you didn't have to have to hit a buzzer as fast as you can to avoid being hit, it was based on a 20 sided die role and your armor class.

This also appeared in the Ultima games. UO did have skills apart from just your character's skills though. However it worked well, and I hope some of that early PvP should find its way into SotA. WoW on the other hand didn't have enough movement in my opinion. It was just stand next to a guy and DPS him and hope nobody else attacks you. UO at least you could evade your opponent.

I would rather have the devs put more cool skills and abilities in the game, and add more story features than adding fast twitch Street Fighter like combos in the game. Let the combos be skill based, but activated by stratigically selecting the right rune to lock in and wait for the right time. Then also put in the ability to evade and be somewhat elusive like UO not like WoW, and we're set.

 

Based on the idea behind combat, and a skill system, I would hazard to guess that there will be multiple types of move and dodge actions that you get based on your skill paths, which in turn go in your deck, which you in turn can then play to execute those moves.

 

I'm not sure if you all are familiar with Torchlight II - they had auto defenses that were triggered by attacks (had a chance to activate or not at all) but they also had user activated defenses. Are folks against having both in game? Do folks prefer one over the other? I would like to have both because it would make the game seem more like a puzzle to figure out when to equip (or just to figure out which one meshes better with your play style) and (to me at least) adds to how we can customize.

 

I honestly am totally against required manual dodging, for the same reason I would be against against the idea of required manual attacking. I want how often I hit or dodge to be based on my characters skill and equipment, not on how well I can see the screen and how fast I can mash a button. The last thing I want is to trek through a dungeon for an hour, reach a boss, and then at a critical moment in the fight I sneeze and end up missing the timing to dodge an attack and end up dead when my target was almost down.

If they want to add an optional system for people to do it, then that's fine. But it should be balanced with the automated counterpart.

 

Dodging and parrying etc should be done passively, while manuvering should be something we do manually.

 

I'm not looking for arcade gaming (Street Fighter, Mortal Combat etc ...); just the ability to dodge projectile attacks, with a quick step, side, roll, back step anything really... (when your in melee I'm also for passive dodging and parrying - although blocking like skyrim is attractive to me)

 

I think when it comes down to dodging manually or having stats that passively block or dodge it depends on the combat system itself. For example a game like GW2 has a manual dodge and no stats for hit/block/dodge but this works for this game because they dont use mana pools etc for spamming abilities and instead put abilities on cool downs. Imagine if it was stats and you miss all of your 4 abilities and having to wait ages to use them again just because someone has better stats? so that wouldnt work for GW2.

Other games have mana pools or rage etc. which allow to throw out more spells multiple times to help land one, thats when stats become viable but I would still vote to have a manual dodge that cant be used very often for emergencies in addition to having stats for evading/blocking attacks.

 

ick no, I want to be involved in combat, not like FF where you just turn it on and then go make coffee while the game plays out

Skyrim type combat

 

I would like to be involved in combat too. I'm hoping that our involvement would be more of a strategy, planning, and the ability to manouver well enough to keep it strategic. What I don't want is the classic arcade type fighting game where super moves and very tricky combos and timed dodges/parries&catches are the basis of the combat. Let the rune system be the only system that allows for activating anything.

 

The biggest concern for me with respect to manual dodging is from a technical perspective: L A G .

Games like Street Fighter IV let you pair up and play with other fighters on the internet and, in general, allow fights to take place with fractions-of-seconds timing without a problem. However, the only info they're firing back and forth is who pushed what button when. The clients take care of the rest. In an MMO, you're passing a lot more data such as XYZ position for your character, the opponent's character, and the info from a myriad choices of gear, not to mention all of that other information from any other character or mob that happens to be near.

Anyone who's played an MMO for a few hours has probably seen a laggy character run by changing directions and correcting their heading rapidly as the dead-reckoning algorithm does its best to keep up with a slow connection. Twitchy combat, while apparently unpopular based on what I've seen in this thread, would also be a substantial technical hurdle I'd imagine.

 

my Two Cents:

First off, never mention anything being like Neverwinter. It's boring, combat is boring, looks are boring.. just boring.
Second. Remove any preconceptions about your character. They are not the greatest swordsman in the world or the most agile being in existance, so they will die and they will get hit.

Now, if Dodging is statted, it should be a perk of another stat. I'd go with something like a "Maneuverability" stat found on equipment that allows you to move slighty faster and more agile in combat. More maneuverability means it'd be easier to dodge for you. All items would carry this stat and affect it to add a touch of realism. Armors that protect much more would be less maneuverable in order to balance it out. Weapons that are smaller would do less damage but be less unwieldy and bigger weapons do more but are much more unwieldy. So the armored to the teeth man carrying a giant stone club would have much more resistance to damage, but would have a lot more trouble dodging and moving around in combat. Moving around consisting of.. well.. moving around! What better way to dodge something than getting out of the way?