Can we DODGE?

Do folks think that this is a happy medium?

We can manually dodge - but a successful dodge adds a bonus to your evade/dodge stat - so for example if you have a passive evade of 5% and you successfully pull off a dodge skill your evade jumps to 7% for that single attack (forget the numbers - it's just an example - no thought went into considering actual values) ---

this makes me feel like I am having some effect on combat beyond being attentive to details and strategic thinking. While I would really like a full 100% dodge skill (that cannot be spammed) I'll be content with a system like the one I described ... or a single card in the deck approach that Umbrae brought up

Would this work from a tech perspective? and for the record I'm not for street fighter combos ... I like the combat in Bastion (specially the aiming system - not the dodging - a lot of the game is won by using your head not your sword, even though it is a tad arcade like)

 

From my perspective it doesn't have to be so elaborate. I really enjoyed PvP in UO more than any other game I've played. If you look at UO though, there wasn't much to combat in UO.

Below is how combat basically worked in UO and PvP was very fun, see below:

The pace which you moved changed depending upon if you were walking, mounted, running, and how much stamina you had determined how long you could sprint.

As for a dodge there wasn't one but there was a parry if you had a shield, and it was passive. I liked that skill very much, and I'm glad I didn't have to manually activate a shield to use it.

As for wielding a weapon, you clicked on a person and began swining as fast as your weapon speed and dexterity allowed you to swing. So if you moved around you could time your next swing and return to the guy and smack the guy.

If you were a mage you had to cast a spell or a combination of spells (due to a delay in the explosion spell), and the person had to be within your field of vision to cast the spell on him. If a guy ran off the screen and their health bar disappeared you couldn't cast on him.

THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO IT

So to say there has to be some great system to make most people happy, I don't believe it. To have a basic strike with your weapon is all we need to go along with their card/rune system however that will work. Although I am speculating that the runes or cards will be what creates combinations, and special moves because they already mentioned we could fight basic creatures with normal strikes without ever using a card. Apart from using a card or a rune (whatever it will be called) I don't want to have to activate anything else. K.I.S.S.

 

I would be against a universal dodge mechanic in the game based on the little knowledge I have about the rune deck based combat system. Different classes/playstyles will have all sorts of moves to choose from to build their combat decks. Avoiding blows and mitigating damage could look something like this:

Warriors may get some stun runes runes, block next attack runes, receive 50% damage for 2 turns, lower enemy strength moves etc. stuff like that.

More fleet footed characters like rogues and thieves may have special attacks in their decks that pop up such as sidestep next attack, stab and roll backwards, lower target hit rate etc.

In my mind, I see selecting these more defensive runes as optional for your deck, and if you want to dodge a lot, you put several "sidestep" runes into your deck so you have access to them more often when each "card/rune draw" is made. In short, your ability to dodge or avoid damage should be more bound to your class, then further defined by your personal playstyle and the choices you make when selecting runes to bring to a fight.

 

I saw another post mentioning cards up here. I hope combat in SotA isn't card based, because I didn't buy SotA to play Magic the Gathering or Munchkins.

 

Combat is supposed to include a deck of runes that come up during combat. Not much information has been given as they are still fleshing things out, but there should be some sort of strategic, possibly random, element to combat. Here is a video with the details.

This should link to the exact spot if the forums does not reset it.
youtube.com/watch?v=RzQdey9hv24

 

This may or may not be considered "off topic" but since it came up that dodging might be lumped into combat moves, I will briefly explain my limited understanding of combat. We know very little, but it is only "card based" in the sense that you can't have 30 moves available to you on screen at the same time, you may only have 5-6 with the rest being queued behind the scenes. Using one of those special moves will cause it to disappear and a new move which you've preselected will fall into its place, or perhaps all 5-6 moves are reshuffled. You are in control of how many or how few of these moves you want to have access to by building a "deck" of moves for each occasion which your character will "draw" upon when in battle.

How the special moves are shuffled or replaced is still a mystery, but the game mechanic itself is SUPPOSED to simulate your character's thought patterns, and present the special moves available to you situationally based on how your character might realistically respond to a combat situation. A quick example may be that none of your AoE moves will present themselves if you are fighting a single target, but if a second monster joins in these AoE skills might start filtering into your 5-6 combat options. That's a pretty big speculation and however that plays out and how well it gets implemented is still being worked on.

 

So your telling me the combat system is like action Yu-Gi-Oh .... I'm not apposed to trying something new, and I look forward to checking this out when we all get a chance but it seems a little limiting from a player control perspective

 

In an RPG your actions are translated into the world via stats and skills. In reality the player may direct the character, but you do not have control as most things are a role of the dice.

This is part of the discussion of thread likes this for dodging and jumping. If you have direct control over these thing and your real world reaction time is incorporated too much then it technically becomes an action RPG. I hope this is not what SOTA is because I do not consider the Ultimate RPG an action based game.

The rune/card system is simply an extension to the skill/stats system and actually gives you more control than dice rolls.

 

SI was great but its combat system sucked, skyrim's was so much better. If your going to be one person and that person is supposed to be you (which is the argument that people keep making for 1 character) then suddenly saying that combat SHOULDN'T be you, it should be you directing the PC that is really counter productive.

 

You are not playing you per say. You are playing you transported into a fantasy realm. You choose that person, your avatar, and their skills, stats and varied actions. An RPG is working within the context of that representation of yourself that you created. I don't think that is in any way counter-productive: that is how an RPG works.

 

then will people PLEASE stop complaining about wanting 2 characters because the argument used is that this is you, not a version of you, not a separate entity, its YOU and YOU have to live with your decisions

And no its how SOME RPGs work, personally I HATE turn based games, and slightly less I hate games like Diablo where its just hit same button till it dies. I want a game where I am the one making the decisions, if the bad guy has a spell charging I have to decide do I dodge or do I try to break the spell by running forward and attacking etc. That's what we were shown in the demo, not pokimon, not magic the gathering

 

Kinda off topic, but there are plenty of other reasons to have 1 character slot. And I still think "its you" is valid. Its a representation of you in relation to the story. I understand you find that frustrating, and I don't mean to open the wound. In either case, this discussion is better served in those threads.

 

So my hesitation with this combat system: (I get the role playing aspect/RPG gaming - roll to make a successful attack)

In this case the roll determines the cards that pop up during combat ... my concern is for example - you are facing fighter dressed in heavy armor - and he gets a dodge card in his/her deck - is this fighter going to be ale to dodge with the same ability as someone dressed in leather when he uses this card?

Also - when I mean limiting - it relates to when the "success/failure" role occurs - in this case I have to hope that I get the right card in time for the right counter (that's why I made the reference to YU-GI-OH) and then execute - as apposed to activating an action and rolling for the success failure of that action. (hopefully I'm making sense)

and again I'm not knocking the system, I just want to get a good understanding of it ...

 

Details of the system aren't quite hashed out yet.. but I know a big part of the reason behind this card system is to ensure variety in every fight. With different cards coming up each time, it keeps you on your toes, not being able to keep doing the same tactic fight after fight. Hopefully this will keep combat fun, rather than being something that can be macroed, or repetitive.

This should also keep people on a more level playing field, because no one will be able to find that perfect combination that wins every time, and always get to do it. Every time you're in a fight, you should have your head in the game, deciding on a counter move for what's coming at you on the spot, from a selection of moves that 'are in your head' at that given moment.

In a general sense, I think this is what is intended..

 

I don't see any reason why an armored man could not dodge as well. If they are proficient at fighting with armor there shouldn't be a problem. If a person is armored they might not have the same range of motion for some manouvers but also they don't have to dodge as far to be safe either. All they need is the weapon not to injure them and the armor helps with that.

 

Every class/build should have the ability to dodge, block, or interrupt available pretty much all the time. (You may be cc'd or w/e.) If you've player gw2 or Neverwinter (or many modern games) you know that it's really not at all twitch. It's really about choosing what technique to use to avoid incoming damage.

I said this on very early SotA posts but I remember playing Ulitma IV and simple, crude online games, and say Mike Tyson's Punchout! on the NES all about the same time 25ish years ago. And I thought, "I love the Ultima story, but why can't it be online and why can't it have a fluid interface like a console game." And this is exactly the trend you're seeing now. I don't know why it took so long to put this together.

 

No offense, PrimeRib, but I am going to continue to disagree with you on that. I do not want console gaming in my PC games. Some games work well on a console, but RPGs are not one of them.

 

WARNING!

Brain has encountered problem and must reboot.
Error: Logic Error.

 

Logic is simple. Plate mail has curved plates to cause normally killing blows to glance away from the body. A thrust that would have otherwise struck a man in the chest that could have pierced plate mail can be avoided by dodging to the left or right, but the dodge doesn't have to cause a complete "miss" to avoid injury it could just simply glance the armor. You don't have to move as far.

Wouldn't you agree a dodge is effective if it causes a strike that would normally injure you to not injure you? So wearing plate mail might limit your mobility some, but you only need to dodge enough so it glances off without injury. Yet for the unarmored man they would have to be so fast that the weapon completely misses them, because a glancing blow from a spiked mace might rip your arm in half without armor. I hope this helps you understand my reasoning. The armored man should be harder to injure.

***Also you should consider using a different operating system for your brain. If a hanging application requires you to reboot that's a problem.***

 

I think they could dodge, but there would also be a chance to loose footing or at least cause recovery time before their next blow. I mean armor is heavy that has to affect your movement.