Banking system?

Reading the currency thread and after some comments on the use of a banking system, I was thinking about how banking really worked in the Middle Ages and whether there were any lessons that could be learned from that and applied to the game.

Here are possible ideas.

* Gold isn't stored in your strongbox, its just held in account, so is instantly transferable between cities wherever there's a bank, and doesn't take up any storage space. Items, on the other hand, are held in the local bank's strongbox. This gives you a "home" for your items, which might seem inconvenient for some players, but it also allows you more space at other cities, since you could get a strongbox at each city's bank. Possibly for free; or possibly requiring you to join the merchant's guild at that city. Once you would earn enough gold you would also be able to pay for an additional strongbox at a particular city for extra space for more items. It would cost a small fortune to increase your space at the bank. A transfer fee could also move the items to another city or town, presumably via a traveling caravan.

* Trades could draw from your bank account through the implicit use of promissory notes, so you wouldn't need to carry the gold in your inventory.

* Money changers, separate from the bankers, would convert possibly different mints of coins, but otherwise different metals; silver to gold, etc. They would also help with ore and ingots in precious metals. They would charge small fees.

* Pawnbrokers, who would hold collateral for loans and then would put any unclaimed items for sale in their shops. They would also put for sale any items that are seized by the banks for any legitimate purpose.

 

The first thing I thought of while reading this is how would banks communicate to sync account information and how long would that take? Now for playability this should probably just be instantaneous. It's not realistic but it's simple and ideally speaking you wouldn't normally deposit in one bank and head straight to another for a withdrawal. So in theory that information should arrive before you do but I thought it was an interesting point to consider.

From there I started thinking about bank caravans and an NPC Banker's Guild. In order for banks to keep account information from town to town.. they need to be affiliated somehow.. and that means regular communications.. and when necessary money shipments to ensure banks always have enough to cover withdrawals.

Further thoughts.. banking caravans as a moving PoI.. similar to gypsy wagons.. possible escort quests.. and yes.. robbing the caravans on the road. (Naturally these would be well guarded).. This could also act as a good attraction for PvP encounters.. much like the example of running contraband.. money shipments could be protected by some players while others plan to raid it.

I do think extra bank boxes should come with a fee.. and I like keeping bank boxes local to the specific bank..

 

I think that would be annoying grind. Its just adding more time to do something, and serves no additional function. Meanwhile if another player is trying to complete a transaction with you its adding more time for them to wait on you to do it.

 

That's assuming a long travel time and having bank boxes magically tied together is just.. I don't know.. my brain goes "eeewww" thinking about it.

I think it serves to encourage regional communities. Most people will prefer to keep their stuff in one place.. they'll find themselves a 'home town' they like and settle in. People with a home wouldn't expect to store their stuff in one house and be able to pick those same items up at a bank.. nor would you think items in a bank box should be available at your home even though they're both storage locations..

Here's another thought.. if you can store items in a bank and pick them up in any town with a bank.. doesn't that diminish home storage? and thereby devalue homes somewhat? Why go home for anything if you can just pick it up at any ol' bank?

 

@Bowen, the way past games like UO have made homes worthwhile for storage purposes is to limit the storage capacity at banks. You run out of space, then need a home to get more space. What I'd like is the ability to extend your bank storage if you put in the proper gold or travel. I'd remind others here what I'm suggesting would also instantly extend your bank storage by giving you a strongbox at every city with a bank. You'll have several times the storage space at start to work with. Transferring to other cities wouldn't be impossible, there'd just be a price.

I agree with your argument about encouraging communities too. Your home bank would probably be the same place your house is, if you have a house. We're going to have regional auction houses and everything else too, won't we? It also creates the sense that there's a larger world and you're just in a small part of it.

 

Yes I know bank storage limits.. but it's one of those features that falls under "not needing multiple characters".. making sure there is enough storage for people who don't own homes.. so the idea that all bank boxes are magically tied together like that I think really diminishes home storage.. no matter how limited or costly bank storage will be.

Transferring items to other banks isn't quite the same idea as what I'll called 'global storage'.. but if you're going to transfer items from bank to bank then I think you should be selecting a destination to move those items to. Like if I want my bank to ship my favorite bow that's stored in Britanny to Owl's Head.. I can do that.. but then my bow will be Owl's Head and nowhere else. All item storage should be 'local storage only' in my opinion.

For me this reinforces the caravan idea.. though I don't think a player's items should be stealable through that method.. only gold shipments or special quest items/triggers.

 

Personally I love the idea of local storage for items, and cross banks for currency. I could be talked into local storage for currency as well in all truth. The idea that items need to be transported opens up risk. You can possibly opt to use the caravan system to transport it, but that should be open to risk as well. If you want to take your shiny doodad of awesome +7 from point A to point B, there should be a risk of Patrick the PK taking it from you. That level of risk encourages community interactions, both friendly and hostile, and supports a level of realism I personally would like to see. It also inflates the value of regionally available items when taken to different regions. I used to make a killing in EQ transporting low end magic goods purchased on the cheap on one continent to another continent when the game first launched and travel was terribly long and dangerous. I essentially turned my character into a wandering merchant buying low, selling high, and interacting with adventurers. It was highly enjoyable.

The more challenge there is in a game, the more opportunities there are for people to find a niche they live in within it. I am not a fan of over complication, but a degree of complexity is needed to support a sandbox type game.

 

In one of the recent dev chats, they mentioned that currency may actually have weight and adversely effect your encumberance. If that's the case, there had better be some sort of banking system or we'll all be moving like sloths.

 

I'm All For A Banking And Mail System...And For Living In Owl's Head.

 

I liked UO's banking no matter what bank you were at you could get your stuff. And for sure chests in your home. Oh Gold unlimited storage on person like in Wow makes things simple

 

I also like local banks, and found it irritating that all banks are magically linked.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, a way to carry around large sums of money easily might just be to have different metals in currency and have one of the high value coins be worth a lot.

Looking at a list of prices of medieval items, you see a suit of mail is around 100 shillings, a cuirass is 25-40 shillings, a cow is 10 shillings, a cheap sword for a peasant would probably be around 6-9 pence, and an axe is 5 pence. A pound was payable by a your typical gold coin called a sovereign, and 20 shillings was in a pound. By the sovereign measure, that would make a suit of mail 5 gold, a cuirass 1-2 gold, a cow 1/2 a gold coin value, and cheap sword or axe a small fraction of a gold coin value.

The sovereign was 22mm across, close to an inch. There would also be smaller-sized gold coins; half-sovereigns and nobles or angels. Half-sovereigns would be half as much, and nobles or angels would be a third as much.

I'm just giving this as a reference to show how much gold as a metal was worth. A pound, of course, was worth a pounds worth of silver. So a pounds worth of silver would be worth a lot, and then only add up to a tiny value in gold. In AD&D, you see a short sword for about 10gp and chainmail for 150gp. Gold is extremely undervalued in most RPGs.

 

Most certainly because of simplified currencies. I'd be more than happy to have a multi-coin currency.. gold, silver, copper.. maybe even platinum. Having all coin be gold just universally devalues gold. What should otherwise be a precious metal is just as common as iron.

 

Its even undervalued in RPGs where there is multi-coin currency, though, which I find weird. I'm not sure the thought that went into the prices in AD&D. In the first edition, gold cost even less, then they increased the value in the second edition, but its still low compared to historical value.

 

D&D or AD&D has never been the best example of anything realistic as far as I'm aware.. I don't think it matters so much to be historically accurate so long as the numbers don't get so high. I mean who's got millions of gold to burn really? That's just insane. I'd like to see gold have some value... but without a lesser currency it's only natural that the value of gold will drop. I mean when the cheapest item in game is 1 gold.. you can't really go any lower than that without a cheaper coin.

 

If anyone is interested in further reference on the historical values, 6 pence could be paid for by a silver coin called a sixpence, and 4 pence by a silver groat, and then there was a silver penny to pay a pence worth. 12 pence in a shilling, so 2 sixpence for a shilling, and 40 sixpence for a gold sovereign. So a 5 gold sovereign suit of mail would cost 200 silver sixpence. A sixpence was 19mm in diameter.

I'm reading further that there were also quarter-nobles. If nobles were 1/3 of a sovereign, then quarter-nobles would be 1/12.

There were no copper coins in circulation in England during the Middle Ages, as far as I can tell, anyway. They did come into mint later. In the early 1600s a copper farthing was issued that was around 15mm in diameter. In the late 1600s, a copper halfpenny was issued that was around 28-31mm. Farthings are 1/4 of a penny, halfpennies are 1/2.

That would make a suit of mail cost 9600 copper farthings, or 4800 copper halfpennies. Using farthings as a measure, the scale would be about 1 gp = 40 sp and 1 sp = 48 cp. Using halfpennies, 1 sp = 24 cp. Half-way in between (roughly a 22mm coin) is 1 sp = 36 cp. You could probably do a rough measure 1 gp = 40 sp and 1 sp = 40 cp and be close to historical norms.

Just for reference again, the sovereign was 22mm in diameter.