Pvp Loot A Friendly Discusion,PVE I welcome you're input please!!

Hello all, First i would like to set some rules to this debate.(we are all very passionate over how we play Please Please Respect others views.)
No Down talking
No negativity posts please.

On to it:
So i want to have a discussion about loot and What it means to you.

I want to pose these questions

1. Items that you have crafted/time spent the sense of accomplishment.
How do you feel about loss of these items say on death in pvp or in pve?
What Items do you think you would have no problem losing in pvp or pve?

2. Items you have looted from mobs,basic items drops, Rare item drops.
How do you feel about the loss of these items say on death in pvp or pve?

3. Item decay and when an item is no longer repairable.
Do you think every thing should be reversed engineered?
How about if there was a system in place that would allow you to say donate that item to a npc vendor. That would for the grater good was able to repair it with magic and give to aid the story npc's?

4. Item economy
How do you think item resell or new sell should be effected by reverse engineering?
Would you like to have a economy that would support players who choose to do nothing but craft?
Do you think you would like to have a play style that is craft only? (loads of money)

5. Items and attachment
What makes players so attached to items?
Would like to see a system in the game that would allow for a full loot system?And Why?
If would not like to see a full loot system,Why?

6 What Alternatives can you think of that would make for a good pvp loot drop?

 

I have been playing video games for many years, well 24 years to be exact.
Over the years i have played full loot games, shooters, rpgs,so on.
the one thing i never really understood was how the item system has never really evolved over the years.

We still get for the most work in a game is loot. and i like that but it seems we get more and more attached to Stuff and get larger and larger places to stuff this stuff. lol

The one thing that UO and shroud of the avatar has done that most other games, have not done is give you the place to not only store your stuff. You can show off your stuff. I been reading the dark tower series lately and there is a part where he explains of a small town that the gunslinger comes to and he explains the humble living. Most of the poor don't even have a candle to light at night let alone a bed to sleep in.
Even the most smallest house in sota gives you a place to show off your adventures that little hobbit hole in the ground so to speak. I really like the items that tell a tale.One that proves you were there. Like my rad 1996 OZzfest shirt before it was ozzfest. It still stinks of sweat and beer..

I guess where i am going with this is, I think we are all getting to attached to the wrong things in games. We look over the real adventure the screen shots of my clan mates and i Slaying that dam dragon in darkfall it took us nearly 14 hrs the first time we fought it. We look over the real loot ingame us? We all want to hang on to weapons and armor that we not only use every single day but make and break every single day. WE don't how ever save the one thing we only get to use some times thats our friends and the adventures we share. They come one time and that moment is gone.

any ways/wipes the tears away / chugs the beer in hand muahah!!

How i feel about the items i have created in the game, Really depends on what its indented use is. So like weapons and armor for me I don't have a huge attachment to them. I do like the fact that our name is on that item and i can have a good feeling that some one is using a Hammershtein weapon. Altho I really could care less if some one drops it or chunks it after they buy it form me. If it was a gift say for a friend getting married in game I would expect to se that over there hearth for dam sure !! you better mister..

In pvp for me I am okay to loose all my items in combat even the ones i just spent harvesting hrs on maybe even several days on. Why well because this adds a layer of content that the devs will never ever be able to add to a game. For me This layer is something that US players have the only control over how it works how it plays out. We choose to be merciful, we choose to be labeled a murder, or maybe you are labeled a very scary bounty hunter. You don't get that Higher layer of content with out just doing it.. thats not something that can be coded in or designed.

items lost from mob drops and rare mob drops. again i go back to this adds more to the game play and style. It sucks that you may get murdered by a player while hunting or harvesting nodes,and you may loose all that. But you may also be able to turn it around and gain tons more then you would have lost.

I don't think every thing should be reversed engineered.
i do think that items like weapons and armor that are used a ton can benefit form this do to the breaking of items and loss on death if that was in the game. It would help crafter to obtain mats fast and allow them to make items cheaper and sell them a bit cheaper to be competitive around known crafters.

with the Master and grandmaster ability to use to craft items. I think its very awesome that some one could be a moramasa so to speak, and put out the best of there craft. I think that IT should be limited on mats and in some cases relying on players that can guard the crafter while they use special crafting stations in dangerous places both pvp and pve related to build the very best items.
For me I would like to dabble in crafting and would proly end up not doing a grandmaster craft. How ever i do long at times to be that guy that is in his shop and This guy covered in blood stops by and says hay old man? You got that dam sword ready yet? hell ya thats respect right there!


I really haven't figured it out yet why players are so attached to normal every day items. I am really hoping you all can help me figure this one out.


Well i have said it in this post already but to shoot it home i would like to see a full loot pvp style. Why well it adds to immersion, it adds a sense that we are not just some mindless puppet on the screen that has no consequence to actions. It Adds layers to the game that devs could dream of building systems for but are glad they don't have to spend the time or money on. Since we can not only choose our fate.We have full control over how it come about.
Example on this is Remember Darktide any one?? we choose how are infamy both good and bad plays out. To be a tru hero you have to really step in and save some one from well death.


as far as good items that would make good alternatives for loot drop, I think like ammo for bows, reagents for mages,the trophies ofc, gold that could be added to pockets not your main inventory like say you can only hold checks in the back pack but your loose gold coin has to be in your pockets. dono just an idea. any kind of usable quest items like keys, locker combos on a parchment, special letters that have to be used for specific clan style quests. i mean i can think of a million things really that can be alternative to the gear you have one to drop..



I appreciate your time as well as reading my wall o Text any input you all have would be very help full and can't wait to read you're responses.

Hammershtein

 

In my perfect little Novia:

Items on your paper doll are never lootable; loose durability upon resurrection .

All items and gold that were acquired upon the most recent entry to the scene/zone/town are lootable
Other items that have been in your inventory prior to joining a zone have a chance to be lootable (like your back up sword, reagents, arrows, etc.)

In parties, PvP loot should be shared (or maybe a setting for this)

You should be able to loot your own corpse once you res with no timer(or automatic crit) given that noone else is already in the process of looting you. If someone loots your corpse, they are automatically flagged PvP to you.

Looting requires an uninteruptable amount of time (like dressing a corpse), which perhaps could be its own crafting kill.

Looting a corpse should count as desecration and count against your virtue. Not looting a kill should give you virtue points.

This way, if you die, you can keep (and actually use) your best equipment, have at least 3 tries in battle without having to go back home or to a bank.

Also if you kill someone, and you are still battling, you cant just ninja loot your kill or someone else s for that matter. But you actually get a reward for victory.

 

It's a trap! Run!

 

Then how do I show courage and fight the evil murderer who stole my neighbors necklace after killing her daughter that was given to her by her grandmother. That necklace was a family heirloom. She has nothing to give so I will return it free of charge but I think my risk in engaging and the reward of helping my neighbor to increase her ability to remember her lost mother and daughter and build a memorial for them around a mobile artifact. That has no monetary value so it cannot be ransomed against either... virtue is not so easily tracked in this matter. Doing something doesn't make you evil. Doing something without the facts that hurts others makes you ignorant and foolish. Doing something with the facts that hurts others makes you evil. My two cents as a PK hunter

 

how about looted items get flagged as stolen, and therefore are always lootable. They also get flagged with the last possessing "rightful owner" once they are looted. This would allow for ransom.

 

The questions are a little tricky to answer because they are simi leading. The instinct is to just toss out some thoughts without directly answering the questions.

My thoughts are less about universal loot conditions and more about how much can I control my losses.

Items that are easily replaced vs hard earned items. Time to obtain the items. Personal history behind the items.

If everything was gained like power ups in a FPS there would be no resistance to full loot. The more story items have behind them the more people are going to hold onto them. Put them on display even.

So I like the idea of items obtained in the current zone is lootable (that includes MOBs looting players) Once you exit the zone the items are no longer lootable.

 

Thanks for the post, Hammershtein!

1. How I feel about the loss of items that I have crafted due to PvP encounters in which I die: Upset. But, I think PvP should have some serious repurcussions for my character. So, losing something of value is par for the course in PvP, to me. I think there should be an x% chance to lose an item, any item, in your inventory and on your character when you die from PvP. This will make the choice for flagging PvP a very serious one.

How would I feel about the loss of items I have crafted due to PvE encounters in which I die? Terrible! I don't want that in the game... I feel fine losing xp and gold and getting item and skill decay for PvE deaths.

2. How do I feel about the loss of items I have looted from mobs, basic item drops, and rare item drops to PvP deaths? Fine. PvP is fun when the stakes are HIGH!
How do I feel about the loss of items I have looted from mobs, basic item drops, and rare item drops to PvE deaths? Terrible. Please no. Thanks! (Though, it would make sense from a story point of view to have "intelligent" mobs kill you to get the things back that you stole/took/looted from their slain kin... Hmm....)

3. Regarding item decay on items that are no longer repairable, you can currently take your 0/0 durability item to a crafting table and restore the durability.

4. There are players who would like to play the game and just craft (or just decorate houses...). I think that's viable in SotA. I love hunting and exploring, gathering resources, then crafting furniture and decorating houses, but I can see some players just crafting and procuring (by gift, pvp gains, or purchase) their crafting resources from other means than going into the field to hunt and gather. I think the economy already does support players who simply want to craft.

5. Philosophical question about why we're attached to things... All theories apply. We identify with stuff, even if it's digital. Also, if the stuff makes our characters kill better or faster and gain some sort of prestige or advancement, we want it.
I am for a full loot system in PvP, because it raises the stakes and makes it more exciting and scary and fun to me! But, for PvE I would not like a full loot system. It'd stink to lose my STUFF when a bandit and some crocodiles kill me in the Celestial Wetlands!

6. Regarding alternatives for a "good pvp loot drop" system, I think that there could be tiered punishments/rewards for PvP deaths. If you die in a duel, perhaps you lose 1 type of gear, and if you die in a town you lose another kind, and if you die by being hit by more than 1 player you lose something else....

Just some thoughts! I wanted to try to reply thoughtfully, even if my thoughts aren't totally thought out.
One thing I know is, stuff makes the game reward system go 'round and losing it can help make everything feel more immersive, more intense, more important and more fun (at least in pvp.)

 

Thanks for replying @ work atm but when i get a sec i want to reply to your posts

 

I want to try out R22 before discussing loot.

 

You asked for PVE input. Well, I'm a strictly PVE player, but by no means representative of other PVE players. We are all different. I have no opinion - objection or otherwise - regarding what PVP players do, provided it doesn't impact me in any way, shape or form.

If Portalarium introduces some form of looting into PVE that involves other players, I'll opt out. Why? Because I don't do conflict with other humans. That includes looting. You may not agree with my point of view, but it is not going to change.

 

********************************* 1. Items that you have crafted/time spent the sense of accomplishment.
How do you feel about loss of these items say on death in pvp or in pve?

See last comment.

What Items do you think you would have no problem losing in pvp or pve?

See last comment.

********************************* 2. Items you have looted from mobs,basic items drops, Rare item drops.
How do you feel about the loss of these items say on death in pvp or pve?

See last comment.

********************************* 3. Item decay and when an item is no longer repairable.
Do you think every thing should be reversed engineered?

Hmm?

How about if there was a system in place that would allow you to say donate that item to a npc vendor. That would for the grater good was able to repair it with magic and give to aid the story npc's?

You lost me.

********************************* 4. Item economy
How do you think item resell or new sell should be effected by reverse engineering?

There's reverse engineering in this game?

Would you like to have a economy that would support players who choose to do nothing but craft?

To a certain extent, yes, but if you are a miner and want the rarest ore & gems, you should probably take up fighting to mine in dangerous mines.

Do you think you would like to have a play style that is craft only? (loads of money)

No.

********************************* 5. Items and attachment
What makes players so attached to items?

Rarity.

Would like to see a system in the game that would allow for a full loot system?And Why?

See last comment.

If would not like to see a full loot system,Why?

See last comment.

********************************* 6 What Alternatives can you think of that would make for a good pvp loot drop?

* I'd say make 1 area in the game be full-loot. Only 1 tiny area. The area would not be easy to get to and it would be notorious. There would be beyond many warning signs before entering the area, so it wouldn't be accidentally traipsed into. This would appease the *MANY* Full-Loot fans from UO. Trust me, there are many UO fans and a good number of them are Full-Loot fans, yet they like SotA, they literally compromise by pledging knowing there's no Full-Loot. Adding a surprise 1 area with Full-Loot at launch or whatever would boost the numbers, and it wouldn't hurt the ecosystem of the community. It would add a spice of life and bada bing bada boom it would add a sense of notorious infamous danger to a corner of the world that would be great for those that don't even go there for storyline related lore alone.

* As far as other PvP areas. Arena areas, keep as is.

* Non Arena PvP areas allow 1 item to randomly drop if you die. (As Darkstarr already talked about)

 

Whatever the details, I vote OPT-IN or OPT-OUT system

 

1. Items that you have crafted/time spent the sense of accomplishment.
How do you feel about loss of these items say on death in pvp or in pve?
What Items do you think you would have no problem losing in pvp or pve?
I don't care about items because everything I would use is craftable.

2. Items you have looted from mobs,basic items drops, Rare item drops.
How do you feel about the loss of these items say on death in pvp or pve?
Haven't seen any, wouldn't care either way, again, because everything I would use is craftable.

3. Item decay and when an item is no longer repairable.
Do you think every thing should be reversed engineered?
How about if there was a system in place that would allow you to say donate that item to a npc vendor. That would for the grater good was able to repair it with magic and give to aid the story npc's?
Don't know what you mean by reverse engineered.
NPC repairing, sure, as an option, a good money/resource sink if done right.
I've not read about any system whereby an item can't be repaired.

4. Item economy
How do you think item resell or new sell should be effected by reverse engineering?
Would you like to have a economy that would support players who choose to do nothing but craft?
Do you think you would like to have a play style that is craft only? (loads of money)
Don't know what you mean by reverse engineered.
Nope. Seen in it practice, it's terrible and prone to global manipulation. I'm supposed to be paying for entertainment, not suffering.
Nope. This too I've seen in it practice, and it's contrived, tedious, punitive, and simply encourages multi-accounts.

5. Items and attachment
What makes players so attached to items?
Would like to see a system in the game that would allow for a full loot system?And Why?
If would not like to see a full loot system,Why?
Rarity.
For Consensual PvP? Sure. Why not? It's consensual.
Because everyone fighting naked is AWESOME (note, this is what happens when you have full loot)

6 What Alternatives can you think of that would make for a good pvp loot drop?
If by drop you mean taken from the victims inventory, it's just interpreted as various shades of victimization.
If you mean generated loot, that is, NOT taken from the victims inventory, that's exploitable and/or suffers from diminishing returns, so don't do that, because either it'll be exploited, or everyone will hate it because it's trivialized to the point of meaningless.
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In my experience there's two reasons people engage in murder/war PvP. One is for ego crushing, and the other is strategic. If you make the strategic aspect, outside of direct 1v1 PvP easier, more efficient, or in some way better or more fun, then people will do that instead. (things like resource acquisition, control points, diplomacy, world plot goals, etc)
At the exact moment you make direct 1v1 PvP the most efficient, easiest, or 'best' strategic option, that's the moment in time the game is doomed to fail (financially), because the wolves eat all the sheep and then stop playing. Rewarding victimization is not a sound business plan, and does not balance the budget.

If you want PvP rewards of any kind? Tread carefully. Rewarding players for engaging in behavior that has the potential to directly remove customers is a path fraught with peril. And that's just the financial/social aspect.
Any system that rewards players via badges or tokens, or even kills per death or similar stats are all prone to abuse and exploitation, especially given the modes available in SOTA.
The path of providing PvP specific rewards is also exploitable/abusable, that is, where you provide rewards FROM 1v1 PvP that can only be used FOR 1v1 PvP.
Honestly, the only non-exploitable player-interaction-option I can think of, off the top of my head, is allow players to create scenes for defense, and NPC attack waves for offense, requiring them to provide/acquire all the resources required to spawn/maintain such things. That way, every playstyle is involved, and it's a massive time/resource sink.

Note: IMHO, reducing someones hit points to zero is the crudest form of direct player interaction. There's dozens, hundreds, or possibly even more fantastically better ways to have paying customers interact in a meaningful way that is financially viable, long term.

The idea that gang thuggery blob/zerging is the height of MMO gameplay mechanics is, to me, hysterically absurd.
But then again, I'm old and jaded.

 

1. Items that you have crafted/time spent the sense of accomplishment.
How do you feel about loss of these items say on death in pvp or in pve?
What Items do you think you would have no problem losing in pvp or pve?

-PvP - I'd stalk the person for the rest of my life cause copper swords are serious business.
-PvE I wouldn't get too upset as long as I consented to the attack from the mob. PvE should be by consent.

2. Items you have looted from mobs,basic items drops, Rare item drops.
How do you feel about the loss of these items say on death in pvp or pve?

-I probably have 15 more rusty swords.

3. Item decay and when an item is no longer repairable.
Do you think every thing should be reversed engineered?
How about if there was a system in place that would allow you to say donate that item to a npc vendor. That would for the grater good was able to repair it with magic and give to aid the story npc's?

-(A) Items should eventually be gone for good.
-(B) Yes, especially the ex-wife's thought process.
-(C) I'd rather try to kill the npc with it.

4. Item economy
How do you think item resell or new sell should be effected by reverse engineering?
Would you like to have a economy that would support players who choose to do nothing but craft?
Do you think you would like to have a play style that is craft only? (loads of money)

-(A) You're a hacker.
-(B) Sure. Every style combined and rename it back to what it was ..."Play" not PvP,PvE etc. All in one.
-(C) Not personally, but I support those that want to craft only & think they should stay out of the wilderness, hire someone to gather for them, or pay the monthly wilderness safe pass fee and earn my loads of money that way.

5. Items and attachment
What makes players so attached to items?
Would like to see a system in the game that would allow for a full loot system?And Why?
If would not like to see a full loot system,Why?

-(A) They killed millions of bears for that.
-(B) It would be a lot more fun collecting hats that way.

6 What Alternatives can you think of that would make for a good pvp loot drop?

-The best part already dropped.

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