Naga symbol at the tower of the shuttered eye

The forums aren't full of "yes men". There are plenty of people giving input, positive and negative.
How about we let the folks that design games for a living decide how they think the larger gamer market will receive the game?

 

The vast majority of these debates are about how people feel or hope that the game will develop. They're not arguing against any part of the game, they're arguing with each other about who is right about what the game should be, which isn't the same.

When it comes to game design and mechanics very few people will say anything against what they do. Most won't even post in threads that complain about anything, not even to say they disagree and give a counter point or two. And criticizing buggy mechanics in pre alpha is not the same thing at all.


Anyway that got pretty off topic there. Still don't see how you guys can actually think it's ok to plaster a trademarked logo all over the game. THAT is truly mind boggling to me.

 

Because we're all here to voice our opinions on such matters? Since they've already said that is what makes this crowd funding thing invaluable to them?

you telling me to be quiet and let the pros work is just helping my point. The yes men of the forums always fall back on similar arguments to silence anyone voicing criticism. Guess what? That's the entire point of these forums, not to just tell the devs how great they are and worship their every move.

 

Answering your own question I think.
No-one is suggesting you shouldn't put forward your opinion, but your posts above seem to be assuming widespread support for that position and dismissing out of hand the explanations that have been given. These are not blind statements of 'everything Portalarium does is always great' - they make reference to relevant factors that contributed to the inclusion of a particular graphic element. Ignoring them and insisting that rampant capitalism is the only motivation here doesn't really lend weight to your argument.

I'm not wanting to get at you personally here, I agree with a lot of things you've posted in other threads, it's just that in this one you seem to be letting your passion overcome attempts at reason!

 

I'm not telling you to be quiet and let the pros work. I'm saying I think the pros know more about their market than the average player.

The forums are here to give input.
Input doesn't have to be inflammatory.
It's fine to say you don't like something.

"This is advertising, and I don't like advertisements in the game." is the point here.

 

I honestly don't feel like that is the case. I've heard the reasons why people think it's ok, and I simply disagree with them. No matter how good of friends Richard garriot is with their ceo I simply won't agree that a trademarked logo has any place in the game.

As for how passionate I'm getting, it's because of the condescending responses and the dismissal of my opinion as "whining" that I got a little heated. I however was never disrespectful to anyone. Pointing out the large number of people unwilling to disagree with anything the devs do or say isn't disrespectful. What's disrespectful is the tactics that some of these people use to silence those they disagree with, like calling them whiners or just being generally condescending or passive aggressive. I get the impression that these people try to bait others into forum infractions and are probably responsible for driving countless people from these forums.

 

Funny since your posts in this thread are some of the incredibly condescending and "holier than thou" posts when, as you just said, you could have simply just said that you disagree with me and left it at that. Inflammatory is as inflammatory does mate.

 

I disagree with your opinion GimmeUOPlz.

 

I can't wait to see the Silver Serpents and other snakes.

 

Haha yes please

 

There is actually an in-game reason why the Naga symbol is everywhere in the tower. The notes you find throughout the scene explain (one refers to them directly).

I'm the developer who placed the banners and as far as I know I didn't get any money from Razer for it. I even paid for my own headset!

 

Right here.

Your accuses are extremely rude. I hope you stop carpet bombing your rants at everyone-but-you.

I don't necessarily agree with product placement, or doing it this way. I just brought forward the basis on which is being done, both historically and wrt SotA specifically - and indicated sources where it's possible to verify my words.

If you don't like them, I'm sorry. That doesn't make them any more or less true.

 

I love the razer logo. I'm glad it's in the game. I don't object to product placement if it designates a special relationship, which this does.

I don't expect to see the Apple logo or the Michelin Man in-game (although the latter would make a cuddly pet).

 

Noooooo!
I like the symbol and the products too,my whole family is using this equip-but I was really irritated to see this logo so often in and on the towers in the game,it wasn't a feeling like:"oh look,there are bad cultists in this tower",it was more like:"Hä?Why is my mousesymbol on this tower?And why so much of them?Maybe this tower got occupied by some razor employees?"
I just was irritated,and don't like it,but pls don't be angry or argue in a rude way,we've got all something common:we like Sota

 

It's rather simple to me. I've been in the tower during the tour guide run and I can honestly say I've noted nothing. Had this thread not existed, I wouldn't have had an idea of this not being 'natural' part of the game, so to me, it blends in well enough to be a natural part of the game. This symbol fits the scene and purpose completely. Anybody not aware of the company can not even get the idea that this could be seen as advertisement.
That said, even if they would have earned something through this (which they obviously didn't according to Lum), I'd much rather see 'product placement' that blends in at this extremely high quality level then other methods of income such as the tools of prosperity.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, and it is good to have a wide spectrum of opinions voiced in the forums because it makes people think and gives food for reconsideration and revision of their own opinions.

I do think it is disrespectful to call people who don't share your opinion "yes men/women". I have a right to my own honest opinion without having someone call me names.

 

Most of the players who stumble across the logo won't recognize it, and while the few familiar with Razer will probably see it as a shameless plug, the small minority of people who read Update 116 and know of Razer will understand it more fully. Personally, I don't like it- to me it's no better than subtle golden arches- but I wouldn't have noticed the relationship if it were not for this thread.

Kara's got the idea. One person gets snippy, and before we know it the entire thread gets hurled off-topic and into bitter flaming. Spoon's right- the forum has more dissenters than we've seen, maybe ever. Calling the supporters "yes men" is just as useless as calling the dissenters "whiners" or propping up a UO straw man. If there is enough good will to suggest a stretch goal for vacation time, then surely there is enough good will to lighten up the moderation work load.

As far as Razer is concerned, product support for their keyboards can't hurt, but here's my concern about the in-game logo placement: If Novia's logos and banners, and more importantly its places, history, and lore, are relegated to third-party IRL entities (and we're from Earth), then is follows that we should be aware, both in and out of character, that some game factions or places don't add up logically. The Tower of the Shuttered Eye! ... is owned by Razer? Endorsed by Razer? Does Razer have an affiliation with this temple? Have other companies discovered Novia? Can I get a virtual keyboard in there? For those gamers familiar with the peripherals company, how are they supposed to reconcile lore giving way to product placement in game?

 

The forum is fun when we can ask questions and get answers, when we can learn something new from someone who already knows that thing, when we feel safe learning all we can learn about this great game. This does not mean we all have to have the same opinions but it does mean we all accept the responsibility of listening without tearing others down in our responses. There is a fine line between stating an opinion for betterment and a stating of an opinion that is for looking to be critical. We all will have a happy and joyful time in whatever we do including playing this game when we are supporters and helpers taking care of making the game the best we can for others as well as for ourselves. I think if this forum becomes full of negative opinions and responses there will be fewer people speaking on the forum which is not the best thing for any forum. When we become so negative that we quit listening to others we hurt ourselves and the joy and fun leaves. Participants in the forum leave and everyone is hurt.

 

Much as New Britannia has no connection to Egypt despite sharing the ankh as a symbol, the Novian character Min Liang Tan, who is not the same as the Earth inhabitant Min Liang Tan (for one thing I am fairly certain the Razer CEO is not a necromancer) came up with the symbology of his banner independently.

 

That! Is the kind of logic Captain Jack Sparrow is looking for! That would be like saying that Lord British is not based upon the real life Richard Garriott because a plaque never fell on.. Oh wait... Certainly his love of the Serpent is not carried from any sort of life experiences at all, and Lord British came up with the Silver Serpent. Wait... Captain Jack is clearly confused. Who did what now when and why? Give him some rum!

Captain Jack also notes that while some of the, *GULP*, Symbolism, pictured above may be related, these two are obvious. Captain Jack is pretty sure Razor pre-dates Blade of the Avatar and thus notes that this relationship was started loonnnngggg ago. Something tells Captain Jack... That without the shiny things that tell you what to touch at night, there would be no SotA. Maybe just ignore it, and keep playing kids!