Final Wipe and Lot Selection

Is that supposed to be an answer to his question? I'm honestly curious why you can't be anything you want to be in this game.

 

Bolded is a problem. I ask myself the same question and come to the same conclusion.

Just saying it is doesn't make it one.

 

I don't really want to get into it here....once labeled however.

 

Fair enough. All I know is we've both been around since the beginning (Kickstarter-era & pre-website\forums). I understand some of your views aren't popular but they're still damn good views and you ARE an important part of this community. (Whether you like it or not haha!)

 

I'm not following your point. The problem is for whom? I'm just saying smallish budget single player games are not my tastes, and i've admitted that I'm not a Lord British fan (though i do respect his work).

I

 

Thanks, appreciate that.

 

I meant that is a problem for anyone who was expecting a good single player game....you aren't the only one who sees it as a poor one.

 

Forgive me for the intrusion, but i think the problem is that you stopped expecting a good single player game... but that doesn't mean you don't get one in the end.

I'm with Mitch there, i agree with a lot of the things you say, but not so much with the way you say it. And you're entitled to be angry because nobody can tell you how to feel... but maybe the negative response against your comments are not the comments itself, but the way you word them?

Sorry again if that touches a nerve.

 

Ok I understand now. I guess it has to do more with my tastes and not a quality evaluation.

My two cents is this... Sota is not the biggest and baddest MMORPG coming to market. But I think there is a genuine attempt to put the RP back into MMORPG and that's what attracts me as a new comer to Sota to it.

I do find it very interesting that it was not really sold as an MMO though. I did not know that.

 

It was expressly sold as NOT an MMO.

HOWEVER, and this is extremely important. It was never sold as just a single player game. NEVER.

Here's what the Kickstater reads:

Shroud of the Avatar is the “spiritual successor” to Richard’s previous work in the FRP genre. Our primary objectives are to tell a story even more compelling than Ultimas IV-VII, create a virtual world more interactive than Ultima VII, develop deep rich multi-player capabilities beyond combat akin to Ultima Online, and offer a bold new approach to integrate them with “Selective Multi-Player”.

You can't separate the two realities and not be misleading. That's something I see a lot of people doing "well it was never sold as an MMO". Which is true, but it was never sold as just a single player RPG either. The Kickstarter promise hasn't changed at all, there's just a lot of competing interests. That's the reality.

 

Your post struck a nerve so bear with me here.

I think you're like most of us - you want to contribute to SOTA and you're doing the best you can to express your concerns. I try not to take what you say personally, but I admit that I do get riled up at times with some of your posts. That's on me though. My mother always taught me, "No one can *make* you get angry."

It's true that I disagree with a lot of what you say. I don't particularly like the constant litany of complaints (with very little in the way of constructive alternatives) that seem to populate most of your posts. At least the ones I've read.

At the end of the day though, I am trying to set aside anger and hostility and find a better way to disagree with you (and others) in a way that is more diplomatic.

Whatever it is you wish to be, either in the game or outside the game, I want you to know that I for one have no personal animosity toward you. That doesn't mean that tomorrow I'm gonna achieve perfection and never get riled up again by things you say.

Truth be told, and sorry if this is TMI, I am battling a severe case of depression and have been for months. It has been a painful learning experience. The one thing I've learned in order to keep from using the *express checkout* is to keep trying to find the positives and find a way to laugh even if things don't go the way I wish they had. This is why, now that I am posting again on the forums, I try really hard to be positive about the game. It's not that I think everything is perfect with SOTA or agree with every decision the Devs have made, but because it's something I'm doing to help keep my head above water. Dwelling on negatives...I have enough of that outside the forums :-(

I don't know if this means anything to you, but I think we are on the same side with regard to SOTA - we want it to be something special that we can play for years to come. We can disagree on how to achieve that end, nothing personal.

Edited for clarity

 

I guess I can put this on the table, although I think the stated pledge documentation assures me this right anyway.

I am basically donating my castle deed to my guild and community to use in a POT, with the ability to still keep the basement. Hence, I have no need for a castle in a NPC town and no need for a town lot in the POT. However, I would still like to enjoy the benefits of surface dwelling and, like many, want a home in a NPC town. So my intention is to get a town lot in an NPC town, even if I have to do it for a month with my castle deed until my town deed is usable. I am pretty generous to the game and the community, so I don't think that I am breaking some terrible code of ethics.

It is too bad that people that will use deeds in POT's can't just say so and allow them to use the secondary deeds in NPC towns instead. At that point, Port could potentially reallocate lots more appropriately to make more people happy, 1 castle is around 6 town lots.

 

I just hope you are in the minority and there are still some desirable town lots available when my turn comes up

 

I don't think there is a worry because there are not many LOTM's anyway. Even for village lot owner's proportionally, there are not many Dukes.

 

@rune_74

So here is how I look on this schedule thingie. All of this has been known from the get go and could be deduced definately in 2014 and mostly during kickstarter.

First
I've played much much much more old school Ultima than I've played MMOs combined.
I really think that any success of this game installment needs to have both a good single as multiplayer game. I'd even state that if this isn't good enough to play in single player then I don't think the multiplayer part of it will last either.

This since this is an indie project on a small budget. It could only ever compete in the market if it has a lot of heart, spirit and soul to it. All of which derives a big chunk from the single player bits of the project. Like NPC quests and story.

But, and this is dictated from being crowdfunded, for both sides to be successful then funding of development must by its nature initially come from the MMO part. All the single player really needs is a base pledge. Yes there were a lot of old school folks at kickstarter pledging more. But as soon as they switched to deliveries and coding then that part of funding would naturally decline-which it did.

While if they could show the MMO folks the potential they would continue to fund the game. Which single player in their right mind will buy multiple hot tubs? Houses? Extra deeds? Even the cloaks and such don't sell much to the single player crowd.
Yet they are crucial to the end success. Since they are a big chunk of the volume that will come later.

Also word of mouth matters a lot when you have no marketing budget. Targeting gamer guilds is a great way to get that going and catering specific features to guild mentality has worked wonders in getting players and funding into the project.

Now as early as 2014 you can find posts from me saying that I don't think this game will be "fully" ready until E2. It was just as simple as looking at the stretch goals to see that.
So a niche game in E1 with a great and grand potential for broader penetration with E2. (At that time it was unheard of to get the type of money that Star Citizen is getting).

Which brings us to the release schedule.

It was known from the beginning this or something like this would happen. They have X number of people on story x on tech etc. those who are working with NPC tech and dialog will do so right to the very end of it, spreading that to junior new hires is risky. Which not only means until E1 but also all the way until launch of E2.
While in the other end you must have the land rush starting persistent launch. That was a promise which their land based funding model dictates they cannot ever break.

Thus it was rather easy to predict that the multiplayer parts must take priority so that those dedicated story and NPC devs can work s long as possible unhindered. Plus getting funding to make the world and everything else both single and multi needs.

So really what that schedule told me isthat they are still dedicated towards single player. If they were not they would have released both at the same time. But they don't.

instead it is those MMO folks who has contributed most of the funding post kickstarter that are getting an early unfinished release. They are the ones who needs to commit right away due to lot rush.

While those of us who are really looking forward to a good single player experience (which includes me since I will hopefully enjoy both) can safely wait 6months extra to get a great experience from that.
Where we know that all that extra funding give us more tech, better scenes, more time on story etc mostly funded by those less interested in single player.

So to me who has done a bit of the math on their earnings, on their hires and who has some distorted view into development - I expected that people like you would cackle and point finger at the MMO crowd and smugly await getting more for less.

Now I know that you are tainted by some sort of CS experience and too much flack and harsh words from parts of the forum. I also get that those who show you the least respect and give you most grief are those who probably will be only in multiplayer and that that colors your perception of those as people.


Mind you, remember that I share most of your criticism of how POTs have developed. You can easily find posts where I have advocated different ways of handling that including how I think they could have gotten more cash for less dev time. So I'm definately not saying everything is perfect or that things couldn't have been handled differently.

But most of the narrative that you are trying to paint is simply flawed. POTs, big guilds, or lots of high pledging MMO folks are not to blame for the game not being ready for a full single player experience at the same time as persistence. That just doesn't make any sense.

Instead this was all dictated by the funding and business model which allowed this game to happen at all. Which included BOTH a single player as well as a multi player.

Now again we still don't know whether that gamble will work. So it is still really really important to push for the success of single player as well.

So please go back to pushing for the important stuff that single player needs. I used to love reading that stuff from you.

And leave the conspiracy theories for that other site, it's not like repeating them will give you a better single player experience - rather the opposite, since the more the MMO crowd drinks the koolaid the more time Lum and others will get making the magic happen.

 

I need all my lots in my PoT. So, i am out of the landrush.

 

An even better joke is a last wipe date without any time for thorough tests of stability and exploit-safety. Not to mention that nothing is as unpopular as releasing an unfinished mess. Much more popular games have been killed by that.

 

I think it is good to provide people who consider spending their money on this game with any information that they might consider relevant. Let the truth be spoken, no matter if it helps this game being made or not.

 

I assumed they didn't pitch it as an mmo because this would create unrealistic expectations for an indie developer to live up to. People would try to compare it to other mmos and attempt to mold the game into their favorite game of past. Not knowing what kind of budget you will end up with after KS will greatly affect how careful you are at marketing the game initially. So a multiplayer game to play with friends and others is a realistic and safe initial pitch, even though they may have hoped to make a more robust mmo-like game, budget permitting. Its just my opinion but I really don't know.

I thought it would be more like a large scale Neverwinter Nights persistent world with an incredible sp campaign. I'm happy with the game so far though.

 

Seems to me someone wants to copy Second Life ten years to late and ignoring all that happened in the meantime ;-)