Lord British's Open Challenge...

~Lord British's Virtue Open Challenge~!'
Our Lord British's Story Time, "In the Virtues"



"How would you rate them, from worst deed to least worst deed?"

Quote Our Portalarium, "If this Video gets 25000 views, we'll tape Richard's answer and post it" !'
The view count currently stands at 6,421 views @RichardGarriott

~Time Lord~

 

I chose... "from most worst deed to least worst deed"

1) Wimpy as the "most worst deed", because he had one of the two only boats on that side of the river.
2) Olive Oil because she had such a low self esteem, defiled herself for very selfish reasons which cheapened herself and her want for Popeye was not in Popeye's best interests, yet disregarded Brutus's desperate desire for her as love, in giving her the boat only after her giving him the chance to show her his love.
3) Chris (our PvP guy) because he lived on the same side of the river as Popeye and found out that Popeye didn't want to be with Olive Oil as much as Olive Oil wanted to be with him.
4) Brutus because he only wanted Olive Oil and attempted to show her his love through providing her the boat and wanted to show her that he was a much better love for her than Popeye who had not come over to see her as much as she desired.
5) Popeye as the "least worst deed", because he didn't want to be with Olive Oil as much as Olive Oil wanted to be with him.

So my most worst was Wimpy and my least worst was Popeye... But I'm actually almost on the fence between Olive Oil and Wimpy, because Wimpy knew that Popeye hadn't loved her enough to come see her... whereas Olive Oil was only thinking of her own self desires and not anyone else's concerns... But I stuck with Wimpy, because of the back story that he's always barrowing for hamburgers, yet wasn't himself generous enough to lend her his boat which was not a hamburger...

It's a tough and challenging question in ethics Indeed!
~Time Lord~

 

Worst deed to least worst... I find that I cannot vote; there is no difference between their actions that are demonstrably ill intended:

1. Olive Oyl is not the worst because her entire drive and intent was to visit her love.

2. Olive Oyl is not the best because her entire drive and intent was to sate her desire by any means and without consideration of her love or consequences possible.

3. Popeye is not the worst because his reason for being "somewhere else" is unknown and history demonstrates his care for Olive.

4. Popeye is not the best because whatever reason he is "somewhere else", it clearly never occurred to him to invite her to share the experience, just as it never occurred to him that her tryst with Brutus was motivated by her intent to be at his side... ridiculously stupid, but definitely human.

5. Brutus is not the worst because, just as everyone else in the tale, he is trying to find his own happiness (despite the fact that in not seeking it in himself, he is doomed to be ever disappointed in all others).

6. Brutus is not the best because using one's largess to inflict oneself upon another under duress is an animalistic thing to do.

7. Wimpy is not the worst because no being in this world is obligated to another but that they choose to be ... there is no fault in his choice.

8. Wimpy is not the best because his view is no less animalistic than Brutus', it's just passively aggressive to Brutus' more active variety.

9. Chris is not the worst because he clearly acted from a desire to protect others in physically dominating Brutus and making it a negative outcome in hopes of pushing him into less aggressive behavior (which is kind of like screwing for virginity, but whatever).

10. Chris is not the best because he was unable to discern a way to even attempt the protectionist ends by less than violent means. If ever there were to be a "best" defined, surely it must begin via a willingness greater toward understanding and lesser toward offense.

See, it's not that I'm indecisive, it's that I genuinely see no benefit in the notion that there is some objective "best" and "worst" locked in eternal struggle for ascendancy.

Phydra "Ditch the Dichotomy" D'LaRose

edit to add: I'm not sure if SOTA can accommodate the middle way.... which is sigh-worthy because it totally aligns with the whole "8" thing that RG has going on.

 

~Our Game Content~

The one thing that get's me excited in this, is that we will be facing some very tough questions in ethics within our deeper in game quests where we must make decisions based on how we answer through our own in game actions. "That SOTA game content has yet to be seen"!

I found it truly difficult to decide...

I've changed my mind on this video's question about 7 times now throughout a week in thinking about it. I think I've settled on my final answers now, but still these thoughts in ethics linger. But it also is in a way, "a game predictor", because I know now that along my trail of heading through our in game quests, that there will come times when I need to step back, take some time and think deeply about which way I will choose to go and what actions I'll be choosing to take.

Our Richard Garriott has been quite famed in all his many game's questions in ethics. That's why I would be quite surprised if SOTA doesn't contain these same types of difficult questions in ethics, "because all his other games have".

I find it funny that Wimpy so far in our pole hasn't been chosen for the least worst by anyone yet.
~Time Lord~

 

The questions are indeed difficult.. Just as in real life choices all have consequences that change the course of our lives. At first the answers seem so easy to make but then when one thinks of them the realization comes that actions all have life behind them that will make choices for each person at a later time very different which will depend on the choice that day. I will need to rethink my answers and may need to change them.

 

Worst to Best
1) Chris: Violent, judgmental, self righteous
2) Olive: Negative (Self centered, manipulative, impatient, greedy, superficial) Positive (Honest, driven)
3) Brutus: Same virtues as Olive. (Male version of Olive)
4) Popeye: Needs to find a wife and dump Olive. Not enough details to make a judgement.
5) Wimpy: Stupidity. Should open a boat service to pay for his hamburgers.
6) Budner: Somehow he will score with Olive after Popeye dumps the skank.

 

So... we're now competing in the British Open?

 

Not an easy one to rank. The story fails to mention why the two of them are living on opposite sides of the river, which may be relevant.
1. Olive Oyl most worse deed because a) she slept with Brutus just to get across the river and b) to be blatantly honest about it to Popeye. Of course Popeye would be furious over what Olive Oyl did.
2. Chris second worse deed because he failed to consider Popeye s feelings concerning why he spurned Olive Oyl (assuming she clearly indicated the fact that she slept with Brutus just to get across the river ).
3. Popeye at neutral. I still don't know why the two were living on opposite sides of the river, so I can't judge him or this situation. Does Popeye even have a boat?
4. Wimpy least worse deed because he chose to be indifferent to Olive Oyls plight.

 

Pehapse the one who didn't want to get into the drama was best off.

 

The view count currently stands at 6,462 views ...

As I'm reading all the answers, I can't help but wonder about our game's own coming ethics challenges, seeing that within the Popeye question, brings so many differing views, changing of minds, wishes for more information and desires for another pathway through the question to be opened. Some of the answers so far given are now challenging me to reflect on my own answers. But as it relates to our game, I can't get it out of my head the thought of "maybe I won't have the ability to backtrack and rethink my answers or actions within the in game quests". Will there be backdoor routes for my actions or answers to take if I later find that I've chosen the wrong pathway?

I think this is a good one to consider because I really never considered that

Maybe @Budner has already, which could explain Olive Oil's new found views on human sexuality...
~Time Lord~

 

From worst to least:

1: Popeye - Tossing Olive to the side after she crossed the river to be with him in the only way she saw possible.
This guy is a sailor-man and he left it up to simpleminded Olive to cross the river!

2: Wimpy - Lazy and poor friend, he could have helped avoid this whole mess.

3: Chris - If he wanted to help Olive, he should have tried to talk some sense into Popeye, not beat him up.

4: Brutus - Creepy fellow, but it was Olive who made the choice.

5: Olive - Not very bright, she did what she felt she had to do in order to be with the man she loved, and who
at the start of the story loved her.

 

I'll weigh in my order, worst to least:
1. Wimpy
2. Chris
3. Brutus
4. Popeye
5. Olive Oil

This is one of those cases where not enough background is given, so you adding in what you think is the background is disingenuous to exercise, yet at some point the lack of information just makes no sense. So, there are only 2 boats that belong to Brutus and Wimpy, and the side of the river with Popeye and Chris had no boat, but somehow Popeye and Olive Oil love each other (must have met already) so Brutus and Wimpy must have transported the lovers to each other before. That is a stretch I can make because the story will not let me add more boats into the equation.

This being said, Olive Oil wanted to see Popeye again, but her usual transport, friend Brutus, decided to use his boat to gain advantage. Quite deplorable I think, but it is a standard human action and puts this into the middle. If Wimpy did not hear the whole story, then his actions would be less heinous, but he knows everything and still decides to not act. These are the only 2 boats in the story, so Olive Oil cannot just wait it out. If she wants to see her love again she must act. Wimpy reminds me of the Dr. Martin Luther King quote "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." What Brutus was doing mattered, and Wimpy chose inaction which set the rest of the events in motion.

Now Chris gets number 2 because unprovoked violence is never the answer. Maybe if he talked to Popeye and the drunk sailor started swinging, then I would have more sympathy, but just hearing about what Popeye did is zero grounds for violence.

Popeye and Olive Oil are the tough ones at 4 and 5. Olive Oil did what she thought was necessary and made sure to be honest and open with Popeye. She did not hide her actions. She loved Popeye, and she saw and took the only means of getting to be with him. Popeye has every right to reject Olive Oil, but I do not feel very sympathetic to him after hearing all that Olive Oil felt forced to do for them to be together. If he truly loved her then he should talk out his feelings with her and let the wounds heal. But again, it is his free will here, and it should not be judged (but I still will a little and make him number 4).

To sum up: Brutus is a jerk but remove Wimpy's informed inaction and none of the rest happens. But any order is correct here, that is why this is a good virtue test.

 

Look I don't think you're taking this into serious consideration. Clearly wimpy is the most noble of them all.

 

Lol, I don't know enough about popeye to vote, but I like the thread. Very interesting.

 

Leave it to Chris to nerf spinach so he can beat Popeye...

Jokes apart, it's quite an interesting test. At the end, the common thread is that everyone in this story acted selfishly.

Brutus acted out of pure greed and lust, not thinking on Olive's feelings at all. Definitely a very selfish thing to do.
Wimpy didn't act just out of a couldn't care less attitude, when he had nothing to lose. As selfish, IMHO, as Brutus attitude.
Chris thought he was defending a friend, when he was being judgmental and short-sighted, looking for a "bad guy" without thinking of the situation as a whole and resorting to mindless violence which definitely won't make Olive feel any better, he's just making himself feel better thinking he's doing "the right thing". Another very selfish thought.
And then there's Olive and Popeye. They thought they were acting out of love, when they were both completely disregarding the other's feelings and acting out of their own.

So I think the question here is "Who was more selfish?" And it's still not an easy question to answer.

 

If you are joking then I might need the explanation.

 

That's because there is no true continuum along which [adjective] can be ranked.

We're all selfish. We're all thoughtless. We're all quick to return to physiology because that's how we're wired.

And to those who bear the brunt, we're cruel, too.

The aspirations of humanity are ever-bound by a single word set against the weight of all the above: Sometimes.

I suppose if I were to ever found a religion or philosophy, it would have to be rooted in the idea that our future perfect rests only in the degree to which we manage to turn "sometimes" into "most of the time" and then, some far-flung day, to "never".

I work on myself because until I manage it, I have very little business telling others how to do so. Occasionally, there's a chance to explain/express it as I see it.

So yeah, thanks for that. T'was nice.

 

Why would I joke about this? This is a very serious moral dilemma.

 

Exactly. However we're all taught to think being selfish is wrong, or self-serving is bad or whatever... It just isn't virtuous etc etc. If we take that to the extreme logical concluion then we must "Die to self".

That sounds stupid, and it probably is. I think it is anyway. However all the major relgions even the nice ones have this die to self mentality. Buddism might not lead to the same kind of selfloathing as some other religions, but EGO is sort of an after thought that needs to be transcended or done away with so that we can be our true self or whatever.

Still taken to the extreme it is selfloathing. If we really get down to it, if we pretend not to love ourselves we might believe it and what a miserable world we live in. Besides we would propbably stop eating really good food because we hate ourselves too much to enjoy stuff, but lets not get carried away here. The real subject is WHY IS POPEYE SUCH A CREEP?

 

Now if we really are an illusion then we don't have self control. Many would teach that the divine really is in control of everything. Again that's really poppycock and there is no evidence to support or deny this. However if selfcontrol is an illusion then we should not be blamed for anything we do or do not do. Character means nothing, and so does virtue. It is all some sort of imgaging system to be some interactive universe, all controlled by God. God must be bored as hell.

The problem I see with this is since there is no real evidence supporting or denying it, then who the heck cares? Why not live as if we have self-control (because it sure seems like we have that, and It sounds delusional to "believe" we don't).

This is why I really like Brutus up there. He has some selfconfidence, and he likes sex. He gave the woman a choice and she was like oh dear.... well okay.

Now the problem here is if Olive didn't enjoy that sex (which she willfully submitted to), then I think Olive missed the point about sex!!! If she's gonna do it why not get into it. But this story is silent on that subject. Personally if I had to sacrifice my body for king and country like James Bond did on many occasions I would have a great excuse to do what I really wanted. However do we need an excuse? What prevents us from doing what we want?

OK this is getting way to profound for me.

EDIT: OH and we are just told they had sex... we don't know what happened behind the closed doors. Was it moaning, did she allow him to do EVERYTHING he wanted? Total silence. However she was so noble she felt she should tell popeye (great thinking Olive because he might find out, but admiting it and saying it wasn't her fault ends the probing, because she may have been wild for hours we just don't know, and popeye won't think it was something Olive wanted). Just speculation because we don't know.

All possible though, because animals don't think about stuff they just do it if the feel like it. I can tell you the only reason I don't screw around like an animal is because of consequences like diseases, and because of the rules of society, oh and the fact I'm in a committed relationship with the woman I'm legally married to.