What is the Anti-Hero and how can we play them in Sota?

Taken from the Kickstarter:
Players can specialize in a wide range of combat and non-combat skills, provided by a robust, classless skill system, and full-featured crafting and housing mechanics. Play the way you want to play, molding your character into the hero, anti-hero, or artisan you want to be!

Now I can assume anti hero would be a villain. I could possibly mean the anti-virtues also. What is your take on this in Shroud, and how can we be anti hero's/anti virtuous as mentioned in the kickstarter?

 

Forum poster = Anti hero!

 

hehe no doubt. But seriously, what did portalarium have in mind when they said anti-hero? What can we do in game that is anti-heroish?

 

Who do you think of when you think anti-hero? I think like Deadpool or Punisher. Something like that or no? I think anti-heroes still end up doing the right thing but their motives and the way they go about it are usually questionable at best.

 

Well I know what I think, but I am asking for other peoples vision, or maybe a dev can pipe in . I will give my vision later but I do not want to sway the thread in one direction so I just want input from others first .

 

punisher is an anti-hero... deadpool is just a clown... LOL

 

Then yea, I'm thinking of someone who ends up fighting for the 'good' outcome but their methods are not usually what one considers heroic. If RG means the textbook version, then I guess we could definitely have someone who's aligned with some of the same goals as others but doesn't feel bound to the constraints of staying 'virtuous'. A vigilante will bring someone in even if it's using their form of justice.

 

after Captain America: Civil War... I think Steve Rogers turned from Hero to Anti-Hero... which is freaking COOL... ^_^

 

To add to this thread: What are the anti virtues? If we have Love, Courage and Truth, what are the anti virtues to oppose these? Is there a balance or we all loving, truthful and courageous?

 

Good vs. evil never works for players. But 2-3 conflicting ideologies does. Nearly every faction game does this in some manner.

The obvious way in SotA is truth vs love vs courage. But we don't really know.

 

Yes, true, but there has been mention of some anti virtues in the past from sota. Remember the artifacts: Heart of sorrow and the Scepter of Dread. Now we all know that the Love, Truth, and Courage are virtues from Ultima. So in tradition with Ultima 5 I would suspect that there would be anti-virtues such as Hatred, Cowardice, and Falsehood.

 

These thieves and looters who have been stealing mugs and candles are the most villainous ones right now.

 

and Cheese!

 

Well, the prophecies did state how Avatars were looked at as the harbingers of doom. Maybe some get tired of being treated as outsiders by the populace and don't buy into the whole Oracle thing watching over them all the time. Hatred, Cowardice and Falsehood sounds like the beginnings of a Shadowlord Faction (well, maybe not that name but V was cool because of them).

 

yes true, it was the shadowlord faction much later in UO. But in U5 it was the direct opposite of love courage and truth.. So if they are using Love Courage and Truth in Sota I would expect the converse, or the universe is not balanced!!!! We cannot all be good damnit!

 

Yes. This is exactly what can never happen. Because you can't really separate toxic behavior from "role playing evil." You can see it this happen over and over on these forums. You have to create a conflict like the true morale dilemmas in Ultima IV or basically every real war. No one's "evil" they just have different sets of values or different needs and these run into conflict with each other. Either side perceives themselves to be on the "good" side.

In WoW, the Alliance are more or less imperialists. The Horde leader isn't evil, he's really a Gandhi like figure. Nearly every faction game uses some, similar mechanism for conflict.

 

Understood. But toxic is really in the eye of the beholder. Just like virtues. One player might think something totally different. I am not trying to argue but when the thread starts devolving by this language I usually say. There is a ban block feature in game and in the forums. There are options for everyone if they use them.

 

lets just stay on topic or this thread will derail fast with the "toxic" topic.

 

IMO the moral system from Ultima is the only way this can be done.

If actions are lasting and have consequences. Then someone willing to make choices in direct opposition to a hero must be a viable game path. The Ultima series always had an underlying route for this path but it never was fleshed out.

I can see how it would be tricky because you have to reward the negative. Especially tricky if you have to reward the negative at the expense of other players.

SotA has all the base elements to make the anti hero possible but knowing how to keep the balance is never going to be easy. The on going struggle.

 

Do you think it might require the ability to "align" yourself with a "virtuous" figurehead/leader (i.e. Lord British) or an "anti-virtuous" figurehead/leader (i.e. Darkstarr) to be able to assign benefits to both camps of players? I mean if you align with Darkstarr/Chaos you would ultimately receive character skills/attributes unattainable by the virtuous followers of Lord British and vice versa. Finding a balance to lure a roughly equal number of players to each camp will be tricky.

It seems like Richard and Starr have laid the ground work work for this to be implemented at some point - perhaps we just aren't far enough along yet?