First Impressions - Critiques & Kudos (long post)

I've been lurking (and finally playing the game) for the last couple of weeks and thought it time to introduce myself and post my first impressions. I've been keeping notes as I go along, as first time player impressions can be useful when developing. Two weeks of notes is a bit much, so I've put the more pertinent bits in orange. I'll try to keep any further writings separated into their proper place.

Up until the last two weeks I haven't had more than six pseudo days off since March, so there was a lot I needed to learn and catch up on. There still is. Please forgive any errors from my lack of experience.

The Summary
I like the game, but don't (yet) love it. However, and this is a huge however, I do love what I've seen of the community so far, and often the community can make or break a game. From what I've seen, I believe the game itself will progress in balance and complexity into a beautiful and enjoyable world to play in. I've certainly enjoyed it thus far. Thank you, everyone, for your posts and your digital creations and your dedication and vision.

Early Game Progression
Everything went amazingly smoothly until ~level 35, with the exception of silver-based skills, which I will touch on later. I tried more adventurer skills than I knew to be optimum, and all of the crafting skills. Skills progressed very quickly at first, and had me a bit worried, but have slowed to an acceptable rate as time has gone on. They are still too fast for my liking, but I'd prefer it take years to GM something, and I'm sure I'm in the minority there. That's okay! I would rather have more skills and combinations that let players find a unique niche rather than be the top X, but that is a topic for much later.

I've generally been playing in single-player online mode. As is probably expected, I started by collecting everything I came across and used those mats to gain crafting skills and craft progressively better gear. I also managed to craft and sell a few things with the surplus. Everything drop, skill, and gear-wise was timed and balanced beautifully excepting taming, masterworking, and enchanting because those require silver and there is no discernible way for a low-level character to mine silver. I disliked that enough that I broke my testing rules and bought taming collars and silver from other players. I'd like to, for example, tame creatures that are of a level with where I am at instead of backtracking to lower level areas once I can access silver. The importance of mob level in relation to the character's XP pool makes this more than just a nice-to-have thing.

The only other problem skill was cooking. I was sorry to see that avatars cannot simply eat an apple. They have to make entire recipes, most of which are complex and expensive early in the game. The forthcoming stat bonuses will assuredly make it worthwhile to make the more extravagant recipes, but I'd like the ability to simply eat an apple, even if it didn't net me any bonuses. I have not progressed in cooking at all, as I cannot gather the materials to make the recipes and it offends my sense of game balance to buy 90% of the ingredients for cooking recipes from NPC vendors. A simple chicken-on-a-stick recipe would be lovely. Once a character progresses enough to be decent at cooking, they would naturally want to purchase or grow items to make more complex dishes.

Gold was scarce, but enjoyably so, and once I'd amassed a large amount of scrap metal and wood I started selling looted weapons and had a bit to spare. The economy is still a bit rough, though I imagine that will be another viable source of income for starting characters. Those two incomes aside, I'm not sure how my character would have fared, since I was intent upon saving all mats for progression in crafting skills and had the XP pool to use them. It also seems awkward that everything else balanced so well, but I had a noticeably large surplus of only the one type of item (dropped weapons), which happens to be one of the top ways to make gold. I assume this is intentional.

All was easy and effortless until ~level 35. I hadn't needed to lock any skills, and my crafting pool stayed enough above the comfort level. My adventurer pool did not, but again, I knew I was trying too many skills to be optimal. A bit sad that I could easily progress every non-silver crafting skill but not even try half of the adventurer skills without XP pool problems. My adventurer pool only got to zero a few times, though, and that didn't really bother me since so far as I understand, you don't ever -lose- experience unless you die or it decays.

I have long liked the concept of classless characters, limited only by base stats and built up by what you actually do IG. However, there were so many conflicting explanations of exactly how this worked in SotA it was a bit intimidating to begin with. A more in-depth explanation on how the XP pools work would put a lot of minds at ease. It would also be reassuring to see exactly how many points a skill had versus how many it needs to progress to the next level in the skill icon popup.

Even better than classless build-as-you-play characters, you have the power to control the pool and what skills gain via the training/not training/maintaining arrows beside each skill icon. I know it hasn't been terribly well received, but the actual gameplay early on is much like any other game if you're not paying attention to the mechanics, and it is a lot more easily controlled and transparent, or would be if there was a clear explanation somewhere. How much, exactly, do you lose from decay? From dying? How much does it take to raise skill X from level Y to level Z? How much goes into maintaining? How, exactly, does 'not training' differ from 'maintaining'? Why does my XP pool go down when I use a skill set to 'not training'? (I assume another related skill is being trained)

After my crafting and adventurer levels hit ~35 I needed to lock the majority of my skills to progress in a timely fashion. While I don't have an issue with it, I think this will be a very confusing and frustrating transition period for average players, and some sort of IG OOC walk-through tutorial of skill pools and adjusting skill gain should occur around level 30 (in either adventurer or producer). It would probably also help to have more structured quests early on that lead players along the road of 'what do I do next?' until they are sufficiently involved in the game enough to find their own goals. I like the atmosphere of freedom and exploration, but think a lot of players might be lost for lack of knowing what they "should" do next.

I also think a lot of players will suffer from a lack of "Yay! You made it to level X! Shiny lights, happy noises!". I adore the choose-your-own-adventure/character way that SotA is set up, but most players are trained to expect milestones. I'd go so far as to say it's human nature. I would not like to see the typical leveling hooha, or even any mention of levels at all, but a way to mark progress in any endeavour feels good. Perhaps titles like UO had - novice, apprentice, master, GM, etc. or even ninja, assassin, warrior, etc. for skill sets along with obvious counters on how far you have to go until the next skill level or title or other milestone. Give us a way to celebrate and meaningfully share our successes!

Forums
I heart all the wonderful people who have contributed so much information and so many great thoughts and ideas here. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Sorry for lurking for so long.

On a less happy note, the forum search is inexcusably awful. I don't think XenForo works well with Sphinx, but maybe ElasticSearch, since you're already using Amazon as a CDN. For those of you having search issues who don't already know this trick: search google for shroudoftheavatar.com/forum:YOUR_SEARCH_TERMS_HERE. If google is your browser's default search engine you can usually do this right from your search or location bar.

Decks
I toyed with this idea for a mobile MMORPG game, as there simply isn't room enough on most mobile screens for the usual layout. I had to resort to macros because otherwise one is staring at the cards instead of the action. Sadly, I find myself doing just that in SotA. I'm watching everything except the wonderful world that has been created. I'm watching cards, I'm watching for resource nodes, I'm watching for critters, I'm watching paths and the map and everything I don't want to be watching. I want to be immersed in the story and world, not outside of it. I also want to be able to just relax and play without considering skill gain. Fun, definitely. Relaxing after a long day at work? Not so much. I'd normally just go to lower level areas and play, but the XP pool "drain" makes that less appealing. I have to turn off all skill gain to keep my pool from completely depleting, then turn all the skills I want to train back on again when I'm done and hope I didn't forget something.

I think the deck system could be great, it just needs some modifications. I've enjoyed using it so far, but it is fast getting to be an annoyance because I have to constantly pay attention to it. Likewise for skill gain settings - custom presets would be greatly appreciated. Or at least a save and restore.

Map
I hated the "map" (compass) to start with. I have zero sense of direction, and am even worse in games. My mother wasn't far off when she used to say I could get lost in a cardboard box. I have, much to my surprise, adapted quite well to the compass map. If I can do it, I would think the compass map a great system that anyone can use fairly easily.

The overland map is brilliant, though I'm still not certain how it fits into the storyline. I love that I can explore this large world map without it taking an hour to get from A to B.

Inventory
Not good. I do this many times each day:

Click on banker, then type i (inventory), if 'i' shows up in the chatlog, use esc and then type i again to -really- open the inventory. Double click on inbox bag and wait for it to be moved to the character's inventory, then double click again to open. Click the Take All button so things actually stack properly with what is in my inventory. Reopen the bag, because it just closed on me (why?). Use shift and ctrl to select items in my inventory to go back into the bag, drag them over, then drag the bag back into the bank box. If the camera angle starts to change when dragging the bag, press the tab key again and continue dragging (no need to interrupt the dragging action, just press tab and continue). Ugh.

Besides the obvious bug fixes, I would like to be able to open bags that are in the bank box and be able to use page up and down. Oh, and using the non-alphanumeric characters . ~ ` in bag names for sorting goodness.

Music
Nothing will ever be what the original UO music was to me, but this certainly isn't bad.
Scene music on top of inn music is painful - I turned the music volume near off because of this.
Being able to play an instrument gets two thumbs up, but 1-8 isn't much to work with...maybe at least flat and sharp with ctrl and shift, respectively? Picking the key of the instrument would be nice, as well. e.g., make a soprano flute in G - there isn't much to play that sounds very good as it is, and this doesn't seem terribly difficult to implement, though I'm doubtful that it would be worth putting in.

Quests
One can definitely tell time and effort has been put into this, and I do prefer quality over quantity, but there is no reason one can't have both here. I would love to see a lot of special type mini-quests all over the place to give people another way to make gold and earn XP and more reason to explore and interact besides finding the best spot/way to grind. Perhaps a combination of staff or 'trusted player' run quests and a quest generator. Most quests and books and whatnot follow a few basic formats - for example: get quest from X, escort/kill/deliver/gather/find/make/etc Y, take to Z or X. With a generator for the basic plot and game hooks and a human to smooth out the dialogue and story (or better yet link it into a larger ongoing plot) a fair number of unique quests could be created quickly. This would get players out and exploring the world, feeling a sense of purpose, and building their character and faction relationships. I've written such generators, and the results are certainly something to at least spark the creative process.

Platform
First: thank you for making the game playable on Linux. I would not have been able to play otherwise. I've tried SoTA on several machines with no major issues, and the minor issues were known and easily solved. If I remembered exactly what they were I'd gladly say, but I was short on time at that point.

Hotkeys
I like the default hotkeys. Thank you. I dislike setting up a bunch of hotkeys on every new install of a game.
I would like a keyboard alternative to the mouse or touchpad for turning the camera angle. Also a configurable one for sprinting.
More hotkeys, please. Anything, everything. Again, I realize this isn't likely to be in high demand.
I keep hitting esc to close the current window and they all close. Perhaps ctrl+w to close the active window? Likewise, you could use ctrl+tab to get to the next window, ctrl+shift+tab for the previous - you get the picture.

Patch client: rock!
Crowd funding: w00t!
Graphics: hit the nail on the head! Yay Unity!

Interface
Modern design utilizes our modern screens - there is plenty of space available to make things legible and beautiful. People don't mind scrolling if the scrolling feels natural. More (heck, ANY) spacing between content cells/boxes. Margins. Bigger fonts and icons. Something more like an interface for a touchscreen or mobile device. I like the nostalgic feeling, but a few modern techniques wouldn't ruin the feeling, and good typography is beautiful on it's own.

Sound Effects
Good, overall. The cat meow keeps making me think I need to get up and do something about whatever is bothering my cat. One of the jumping noises female characters make is...rather silly. Small beans.

Taming & Summons
I would like summons and/or tamed creatures to be a bit of a pain - drawing unexpected mobs, randomly wandering off not to return for awhile - whatever it takes to make them balanced. But able to fulfill the mechanic of assisting non-melee characters with aggro and mobs from time to time. Low DPS, bad AI, slightly higher HP. This is the first time I've done much melee in a game in a very long time. Not unpleasant, but I prefer a bit of distance between me and the critters without constantly running in circles. Some of the skills I have yet to invest in may solve this as well. Root is nice, but doesn't completely fulfill the role. In fact, it might be a bit too nice.



...and that's more than enough for now. Thank you again, everyone, for making such a wonderful space.

 

Welcome.
Thanks for a constructive balanced review. You touch on some points i also feel need a little work..apples for sure! But most systems and areas of the game are seeing their first iterations really and some are only bare bones so expect lots changes over the years. The combat glyph system that seems to take your eyes from the action does get easier i find and allows you to have many more skills than slots being dynamic, also on this system it creates a unique deck, who else will have the same skills as you in the same quantities/configuration. I love the versatility of it and now after playing with it for a few months find a normal approach boring and very static. You can also group like minded skills in slots so most of the time you just have to work from memory and a cursory glance what slots does what.
ie:
1-5 combat
6buffs
7debuffs
8-9 heals
10 leg it

 

Welcome to the forum, @jaciss .

It is clear you have been playing Shroud of the Avatar for some time and have had a good look at what is developing here. You've offered a clear critique and have some very good ideas. Let's hear more from you, now you've begun.

 

Well constructed post. It was a nice read and welcome to the community I agree on the decks, but sadly this can happen with any game which is focussed on a toolbar

 

Great post Jaciss.

We're here early and can help shape up the world and provide a unique experience for all.

Nice to see you are enjoying yourself and making sense of everything happening at this stage.

 

Agreed - it is clear cooking and several other systems have many iterations yet to come, and the glyph system neatly solves a number of other difficulties. I wish I'd read a post with your glyph setup before I started. I finally settled on something similar. 1-4 combat, oft-used, and close-range glyphs; 5 ranged (not many combos for those unless you're an archer, and I like a specific button for drawing a single creature from a mob when I can); 6 buffs; 7 debuffs; 8-9 heals; 10 misc. When I get it I plan to put juxtaposition in the debuff slot, too, as most of it's combinations are with buffs. I tend to mindlessly stack cards in my peripheral vision while I'm gathering resources and whatnot. Practice, at the least, and I'm well-set for whatever comes next. One of the few key-mapping changes I made, and that others might find useful, is setting extra mouse buttons (if they exist) to slots 6-whatever. When I have heal as part of the 1-4 slots it's easy to hold the slot number key and click the middle mouse button to get the card stacked out of the way until I need it. 6-7 are the thumb buttons for me. Otherwise I only use the mouse for camera angle and sometimes moving forward.

I wouldn't want to switch to a non-deck system, but I would like something to make selecting cards and combos less concentration-intensive for at least average activities. Known saved combos that get performed in sequence, or macros, or auto-stacking-but-still-draggable, or..? Ideas? Such conveniences could be left well out of PVP as that's a different play style and deck altogether and no one wants to play against people with "I win" buttons. I would certainly rather keep the current system than go to the usual way of doing things.

I've noticed a number of YouTube videos with people clicking on their hotbar. This boggles my mind. I can scarce keep up with cards using only the keyboard. Likewise with looting - I would go batty if I had to click a button every time I wanted to loot something. I heart being able to use the e key. I wish there were more such shortcuts for windows and dialogues.

 

Thank you, @Acred - I really haven't played much, though. Only a handful of hours before the last two weeks, as time and my lack of a video card would not allow for much more. The onboard i7 graphics worked fine a dozen releases or so ago but not anymore! The credit goes to the developers and players for making things easier to understand than they would otherwise be for a game of this complexity. Thank you for your kind words, and I look forward to being a part of more discussions now that I'm officially not lurking anymore.

Thank you, @firesparx. I'm happy to hear you think it was well constructed - it ended up being quite a bit longer than expected. I'm glad it was well received. I agree that the interface will always be that fourth wall, but perhaps with time and experience we will get more habituated to it and not notice it so much.

@pikegirl Isn't it a nice change? To be even a small part of helping to create something like SotA with a wonderful team willing to work with players to make the best world possible. I've not seen much of that in games that weren't largely or entirely volunteer only, and that comes with it's own issues. Not sure I'm making sense of everything, but thank you very much for your warm welcome and previous posts you've made that have helped me out.

 

Press the little thumb tack on the windows you dont want to close when you hit escape.

 

For now buy bread from the innkeeper. +1 health regen for a few gold. If you can find two types you get +2 and its noticeable as you heal between fights.

 

Welcome Jaciss. Wow what great feedback and I do see you have been playing and your feedback is so constructive. I also see you realize it is a game in development which is not always the case when someone new arrives. . Let me know if I can assist you anytime. I am Majoria in the game, don't hesitate to friend me for questions or to just say hello.

edited

 

Thank you, @Kvow Triumvir - It's more that I want to close them one at a time without clicking on them, and the expected behaviour (for me, anyway) when one clicks escape is to close the active dialogue, not close everything that is open.

 

Thank you, also, for your very helpful posts, @majoria70 !

What, they actually meant it when they made you click "I understand I'm entering a construction zone"?! I think that's part of the draw for a lot of us - hands-on experience and some input as the game is being created. SotA certainly has a lot of the best from the gaming world. Thank you for your warm welcome, and I look forward to seeing you about.

 

Isn't that how it works already except the modifier keys are SHIFT and ALT?

 

Welcome, Jaciss. Good thoughts in the opening post!

 

It's super nice to meet you! Please look me up if you want some company on your adventures

 

Welcome jaciss!

 

Just tried this, and shift does raise all notes but 8 an octave on the flute I have, however there are no sharps or flats. Also, unless I'm mistaken three or four of the notes are a wee bit flat. I'm trying sheet music now - perhaps that's the solution.

Thank you!

 

Thank you, @Beaumaris! I'm pleasantly surprised by all the positive feedback I've gotten.

It's nice to officially meet you, too, @Audacity. Thank you.

Thank you, @Mata, I have seen your kind comments about on the forum quite a bit these last two weeks.

 

You're welcome and thank you, too.